To say no thank you to someone paying off the mortgage?

[yourewrongthenyoureright]

FIL has always been a very controlling and tricky man. Not cruel. But controlling and manipulative. I’ve kept my distance where I can. DH helps him administrate his life/speaks to him everyday /visits him (4hrs away) monthly. Husband and I have stood on our own two feet and not asked for or accepted (when occ offered) from his (not insubstantial/not crazy wealthy) pockets.

My SIL/husband have been very happy to accept help / have asked for help (FIL contributes significantly towards: kids at private school/v nice holidays/new cars - we haven’t had those things. They earn v similarly to us, I think). We can’t have those things on our earnings and so we’ve not had them. We feel he then exerts control over them and they seem less able to maintain boundaries with him as a result. SiL does less for him than DH, ironically, but there is a v different relationship which I find really one sided (he isn’t nice to her because he has power, I think. The power to take away)

Anyway. He talking about significantly downsizing and is saying this would free up enough money* to pay off both mortgages (ours and SiL’s). It would obviously be life changing in as much as we have yearsandyears of mortgage left.

But can you ever accept a gift like this without being beholden?

*Obviously I appreciate IHT situation etc.

key phrase
"as long as OPs husband maintains strict boundaries"

But can you ever accept a gift like this without being beholden?

Yes, you can. Because if your FIL suddenly said 'You must do this thing I'm asking of you, because I paid off your mortgage' you would simply be able to say 'I'm afraid that isn't how it works, sorry.'

You might feel beholden, but that's on you, really. You wouldn't actually be beholden. You would still own the house, whether he paid it off or you did, and your obligations to him would still be zero.

Take the money; donate it all to a charity in his name and have them send him a personal thank you and an invitation to their fundraiser every year for the rest of his life.

Yes, any relationship in which one person uses the other as a bank is going to lead to contempt. If you couldn’t give a fuck less about your FIL’s opinion, and he’s offering, and you or your husband would let it affect your boundaries, then yes, you should take the money. If any of those things bother you, then yes, you will let it affect your boundaries and you shouldn’t take it. “Stand on your own two feet.” This is a fallacy that makes people feel better when they’re not rich. The rich gift each other money all the time for wealth transfer. If a stranger ever offers you a billion dollars though, I do hope you’ll take it immediately, and just pay for therapy to deal with your feelings of responsibility for someone else’s actions. That money could do a shitload of good.

But can you ever accept a gift like this without being beholden?
Yes, of course you can

It just feels like - by taking money - you’re taking away your right to that.

That's entirely up to your DH isn't it. If FIL says "I paid your d**m mortgage off for you", he can just say
"I know you did dad, we appreciate it. And I'm still hanging up / going out" (or whatever).

There isn't anything FIL can actually hold over you is there?

And tbf it's a very nice thing he's doing to pay off his children's mortgages - can't you feel a bit grateful?

@yourewrongthenyoureright

It's a tough one because it's so life-changing. I'd certainly want to accept the money.

I guess I'd have to consider whether we would be strong enough to withstand his attempts at manipulation and/or what compromises we either would or would not be willing to make going forward when he starts making demands. Would we be willing to the extent of going NC if things got ugly?

Also, I'd want to carefully consider (and take legal advice) on any paperwork involved to be sure there weren't any hidden clauses about it being a 'loan' or that he could 'request it back if necessary'. I know of one person who accepted money with the verbal assurance that the loan clause was strictly a legal formality and would never be enforced. And yes, you guessed it, the money was demanded back the first time the person didn't do what the relative thought they should do, not with the money but in a 'life choice'.

It sounds as if SiL is subject to his manipulation because his 'help' is ongoing rather than a one time lump sum. So I'd want to be sure that this amount was going to be paid as a lump sum rather than ongoing mortgage payments or in divided lump sums.

He’s four hours away. It’s pretty hard to exert control at that distance. Better to pay your mortgage off now than see 40% of the money disappear when he dies.

Yes? Which he is doing currently and would need to continue doing.

yup, not quite as easy as "who wouldn't want their mortgage paid off"

whether its nice or not depends on the giver......

OP, you both have years of practice with your boundaries. Consider accepting the money for your childrens future and keep those boundaries strong.

I’d take it, just maintain your boundaries, if he does end up asking for something you don’t want to do at least you’ve got a pile
of cash out of it!

I wouldnt touch it with a bargepole.
You wouldn't be free till he was dead.

If there are strings attached, I would politely refuse the money. It doesn't sound as though your FIL would just give you a generous gift. I wouldn't want to be beholden to him if he is as controlling and manipulative as you suggest.

Not if he has given away gifts totalling more than £325,000 in the 7 years before his death. Beyond this level, the recipients, not the estate, are liable for IHT.

Thank you so much for pointing this out - I was not aware of this at all, and have just looked it up on the .gov.uk website, and you are correct.

I would accept it but set clear boundaries. There’s nothing he can hold against you/ take from you as once the mortgage is paid it’s paid.

I wouldn’t OP. There’s a very real qualitative difference between the way he treats your DH’s sister & the independence you both have from him as a result.
I’d be most concerned about if he has sufficient funds to pay for his care in older age? What implicit contract are you signing when you accept his “help” now? I think he will be an expert at exerting guilt & obligation. Do you want him to live with you if he needs care? Ofc you don’t have to accept any of these things nor are they necessarily part of the deal. But it will be much harder to hold onto what little independence you have now, than when he is aged & in real need & wanting /needing you to look after him. If your DH already supports him a lot as it is. Wait for the money in inheritance. Or reassure yourself that you will be freed from the stress of trying to fund or supplement care for him down the line.

I would suggest taking it but setting the boundaries at same time. He probably wants to ensure the monies go to you and not in IHT, by doing this now. My parents wished they had done the same sooner (too late to do so now).
talk to DH about your worries, but also be aware that you may need to set some aside should FIL need care or pass away in next 7 years (in this situation myself as anything my parents gifted in last 7 years is scrutinised by social finance assessments!).