To say no thank you to someone paying off the mortgage?

[yourewrongthenyoureright]

FIL has always been a very controlling and tricky man. Not cruel. But controlling and manipulative. I’ve kept my distance where I can. DH helps him administrate his life/speaks to him everyday /visits him (4hrs away) monthly. Husband and I have stood on our own two feet and not asked for or accepted (when occ offered) from his (not insubstantial/not crazy wealthy) pockets.

My SIL/husband have been very happy to accept help / have asked for help (FIL contributes significantly towards: kids at private school/v nice holidays/new cars - we haven’t had those things. They earn v similarly to us, I think). We can’t have those things on our earnings and so we’ve not had them. We feel he then exerts control over them and they seem less able to maintain boundaries with him as a result. SiL does less for him than DH, ironically, but there is a v different relationship which I find really one sided (he isn’t nice to her because he has power, I think. The power to take away)

Anyway. He talking about significantly downsizing and is saying this would free up enough money* to pay off both mortgages (ours and SiL’s). It would obviously be life changing in as much as we have yearsandyears of mortgage left.

But can you ever accept a gift like this without being beholden?

*Obviously I appreciate IHT situation etc.

Why would you accept money from someone you obviously can’t stand?

Don't look on your PIL solely as s source of funds. I’m sure that is not how they see it. They will be thinking they are giving you money because you are a part of their family.
All people, parents in law included, have their faults. Fully embrace those or keep your distance. To do anything else is exploitative.

talk to your dh and say it needs to chnage nothing about how we have some healthy boundaries and you're able to prioritise your children and family when needed.

No right answer here - what does your husband think? I would leave it to him.
It sounds as if he won’t be pushed around so may be ok, and as if you have been good at keeping your distance and not being the conduit.

But yes, you are right, ultimately you are more beholden to someone who has given you a large cash gift if they choose to hold it over you, than to someone who has not.

What a dreadful thing to say about an old man who has offered to give someone a life changing amount of money. The entitlement of your generation is beyond belief.
If I was your relative I’d be giving the whole lot to the Donkey Sanctuary.

The other thing you may want to consider

If you say no and SIL says yes

In 10 years time when he is frail and has to pay for care some of the money will go on that.

Most likely his will splits the remaining estate 50:50 so there's no scenario in which this is made fair at the end.

I’d take it - you can use saved money for your children

Exactly and you get a sizeable tax free allowance anyway and only pay tax on the assets of estates above a certain amount which could be as much as £1 million if you have the IHT allowance of your mother as well. (If she was deceased and they were still married). Most estates are not worth anywhere near what assets you need to leave before attracting IHT.

IME these things are less to do with whether you feel beholden and more to do with your ability to maintain boundaries generally. If your DH is able to be polite but firm at the moment when appropriate, I don't see why accepting the money would change that, especially as it's a one-off gift not an ongoing commitment.

I would talk all of this through with your husband. If you're both happy that you would be able to maintain boundaries if your FIL tried to throw his weight around then I don't see the problem. OTOH if your DH feels that accepting the money would mean feeling obliged to put up with things you wouldn't put up with now, then you may want to say no.

The thing is he is manipulative but it doesn’t mean you have to Allow him to manipulate you.
as others have said, take the money and continue with strong boundaries.

The thing is he is manipulative but it doesn’t mean you have to Allow him to manipulate you.
as others have said, take the money and continue with strong boundaries.

I'd be worrying more about the more long-term future. If you take it, you're morally obliged to be his carers if he ends up needing care. Are you up for that?

I'd accept it. You may feel you would be obligated, but you don't have to act on this. My DC don't have mortgages because we've downsized, they're grateful but we don't ask for anything in return.
Bear in mind the comments about the possibility of him dying within 7 years, you could be personally liable for the inheritance tax for the sum that came out of his estate. In theory he could put something in his will to say that any tax should come out of his estate, but he may not do this.

After a certain level of gifting, the recipient, not the estate, is liable for IHT.

From the gov.uk website:

How Inheritance Tax on a gift is paid
Any Inheritance Tax due on gifts is usually paid by the estate, unless you give away more than £325,000 in gifts in the 7 years before your death. Once you’ve given away more than £325,000, anyone who gets a gift from you in those 7 years will have to pay Inheritance Tax on their gift.

I'd feel wary over accepting substantial cash lump sums from any 83 year old, controlling or otherwise, because of the care costs issue others have raised. Unlike with IHT there is no 7 year rule. Might be worth taking specialist advice?

In current times I would be considering planning for IHT. I also understand the need to feel properly independent. Could you ask that he puts it in trust for the children until they are 25? That way FIL feels good, Rachel from accounts does not get the cash and you do not feel obligated.

He can do that still!

If FIL says about the gift, then DH can say, I thought it was no strings attached and I’ve taken it that, you’ve said it was a gift and not payment for calls/visits etc!

I'd take it. How is he going to use it as control? Take it back? How? He can ask. You can say no. If he tries to "control" you and you refuse and he says "I paid off your mortgage!" You say "yes that was a much appreciated gift that we thanked you for, it was not you purchasing the rights to our lives and has nothing to do with this "

Hi op take his money he’s not going to be around forever and the things he wants can still be a no you tell your dh he cannot start doing what he does to sil. To be fair it seems like sil doesn’t really do much for him anyway just takes his money. You can still have boundaries because the money will be used he can’t ask for it back. Just make there no hidden agenda where he would expect you to look after him if he’s unable. Move him in to your house.

Your husband should accept the gift with grace. Be thankful.

Express thanks but go forth as you have always done. Put a similar amount away in savings as you paid into a mortgage or buy a second property.

My guess is that your DH will not change his relationship with his father at all. They have a long history of your DH standing his ground.

Apologies, now I see it.

I would take it but put it in a bank account for now. If FIL then starts holding it over you or trying to change boundaries you can hand the money back. Then if he doesn’t hold it over you then pay off the mortgage x

It's your husband and his father matter and I think you should let your husband handle it and not get involved at all. In the end those are your in laws and not your family to handle.

Exactly... He already has some boundaries... I don't see why the gift should change that... you can say thank you.. but you don't have to bow down and worship in return. Also

" We feel he then exerts control over them and they seem less able to maintain boundaries with him as a result. SiL does less for him than DH, ironically,"

It sounds to me like he's got DH doing plenty for him already, money or now. I think you've gone through the pain, why not also the gain?

Also.. on purely practical terms.... supposing he had £200k to gift - £100k to each of your mortgages. He gives SIL £100k but you too turn it down and it sits in the bank... the will splits everything equally between SIL and DH... so at the end of the day DH gets £50k and SIL has had £150K. All for the sake of not deciding to keep boundaries that you already have.

I think that's really unfair. Accept the gift for your children's sake.

Also consider that perhaps FIL really does want to do this because he's a grumpy old man but he really does appreciate everything your DH does for him and he already knows DH isnt in it for the money. He probably respects him already or he wouldn't put up with the boundaries that already close down some of his behaviour. If he wants to do something nice for DH, then let him.

Edited to add. But get professional advice on IHT rules first.. for eg.. I think it depends on how much mortgage interest you are currently paying or will pay to pay off the mortgage without the gift, to see if it would be worth setting up a trust for the DC or not.

Once he’s paid it, he can’t take it away, so he continues to hold no power and you can continue to mantain boundaries. Accept it. You have a relationship with him anyway. Your mortgage being paid off, for me, would be life changing

It's life changing for your whole family. I would do this but with caveats that I would discuss with my DH.