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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - Keir Starmer's ok - getting rid of him wouldn't help Labour

219 replies

Twiglets1 · 09/05/2026 08:44

As a result of the disastrous results for Labour in the recent elections, many people - even within his own party - are now calling for Keir Starmer to stand down.

Would that really help Labour though? It seems to me that a lot of the reasons people are fed up - like the cost of living & housing crisis for example, are not his fault personally but more a result of years of underinvestment, mainly by previous Conservative governments.

Yes he does lack charisma and personally I think the Conservatives have a better leader in Kemi Badenoch. But I wouldn't vote for a political party purely based on how charismatic their leader is.

When you look at the alternatives - I like Wes Streeting but would he be able to turn around the fortunes of the Labour party before the next General Election - I doubt it. And the same goes for Andy Burnham, even if they did find a way to make him eligible for party leadership in time.

The Tories caused turmoil with their constant leadership challenges and it didn't help their brand. Starmer hasn't done anything too awful that I'm aware of - wouldn't it be better just to keep him in post?

OP posts:
Freysimo · 10/05/2026 13:18

I actually think Starmer was right to abolish winter fuel payment, and I'm a recipient! I'd much rather benefits were targeted at those who need them and money not thrown at people who choose not to work as a lifestyle choice. Labour will NEVER reform the benefits system.

Shedmistress · 10/05/2026 13:27

Twiglets1 · 10/05/2026 12:10

There isn't just one problem there are multiple problems. A bit beyond the scope of this thread. I gave a couple in my first post, the cost of living and the housing crisis. There is also too much pressure on public services and we seem to have a problem with illegal immigration, which Reform are capitalising on.

Cost of Living
Housing Crisis
Pressure on Public Services
Illegal Immigration

Why are there these things, that is the nature of the problem?

Shedmistress · 10/05/2026 13:28

Freysimo · 10/05/2026 13:18

I actually think Starmer was right to abolish winter fuel payment, and I'm a recipient! I'd much rather benefits were targeted at those who need them and money not thrown at people who choose not to work as a lifestyle choice. Labour will NEVER reform the benefits system.

The problem is the high fuel prices to start with. They cannot keep just plugging gaps by throwing money they don't have at it.

Twiglets1 · 10/05/2026 13:28

Freysimo · 10/05/2026 13:18

I actually think Starmer was right to abolish winter fuel payment, and I'm a recipient! I'd much rather benefits were targeted at those who need them and money not thrown at people who choose not to work as a lifestyle choice. Labour will NEVER reform the benefits system.

My in laws said the same, and they are in their 80s and not rich.

And having just reached the age of 60 myself, I don't agree that I suddenly need free prescriptions. Our household income is pretty good and tbh neither myself nor my husband need free prescriptions but we will take them all the same.

Maybe the next Labour leader will consider raising the age of free prescriptions to 65 or means testing them? That will end their popularity.

Imagine the outcry! Which is why they don't make cuts to things like that and the costs just keep rising.

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 10/05/2026 13:32

Shedmistress · 10/05/2026 13:27

Cost of Living
Housing Crisis
Pressure on Public Services
Illegal Immigration

Why are there these things, that is the nature of the problem?

I've answered your question in good faith, not going to get bogged down in this subject which is a massive topic in itself. You could start a different thread if you want people's views on what are the problems in the UK.

OP posts:
Freysimo · 10/05/2026 13:34

It's free prescriptions for all here in Wales and you can imagine the waste. When MIL died she had a drawer full of medications that she had just kept ordering on repeat prescription. Does no one check the repeat prescriptions? I think I could ask GP for practically anything here and I'd get it. Her meds were returned to GP surgery but I doubt they could be reused.

MadderthanMorris · 10/05/2026 13:36

Labour's basic problem is that it's not just unpopular, it's unpopular with different sections of the electorate for sharply opposing reasons. So it can't solve either one of its unpopularity problems without making the others even worse.

A bunch of centrists, soft Tories etc. were just persuaded to hold their nose and vote Labour at the last election because the Tories had gotten so catastrophically awful that noone could pretend they were serious candidates for another term. These people expect reasonable continuity, a responsibly managed capitalist economy without the rampant incompetence and corruption of the Tories.

Some of these people reacted badly to what they saw as early missteps such as raising employer NI contributions. The problem with trying to satisfy them is that capitalism IS failing due to global factors far beyond the control of the UK Labour party. And also the fact that they are not long term, natural Labour voters in the first place so are unlikely to stay on side if the Tories can even slightly get their act together. I doubt the choice of leader makes much difference here.

People on the left were split, with some in marginal seats voting Labour despite being underwhelmed by their offer, but many others having given up on the party already - particularly as Starmer had shafted them in his leadership bid and then made such a show of expelling many from the party. With the Greens ascending, these people now have a practical alternative they didn't have before. And Labour has lost its capacity for including left wing perspectives within policy development.

The antipathy of this group to Labour is very largely personal, centred on Starmer, and there's nothing he could do as leader that would unburn those bridges now. Burnham might help, a bit. Streeting certainly wouldn't.

Then you have Reform voters, some of whom are ex-Tories and some ex-Labour (red wall etc.) now with a visceral hatred of Labour who they see as having betrayed them. There are socially conservative issues at play here that are pretty much impossible to square with the few remaining areas of loyalty Labour has left, among educated youngish people in cities.

A lot of these people are pretty immune to reason or analysis, are deeply attached to a victim mentality and there is NOTHING Labour could do that would satisfy them and get them onside. But there's a lot of them and they make a lot of noise, and possibly for this reason Starmer has put a lot of effort (in terms of comms and rhetoric, at least) into trying to win them back, at the expense of the other two.

This has been a spectacular failure and a demonstrable error of judgment on his part. I don't mean failure because I don't like it or the Labour party should have different priorities - I mean failure because it hasn't worked. For this reason he should probably resign. When political leaders spectacularly fail they generally resign, or at least they used to.

As for who takes over and how they square this circle, God knows. I can't think of a job I'd want less.

summerchild82 · 10/05/2026 13:37

Twiglets1 · 10/05/2026 13:32

I've answered your question in good faith, not going to get bogged down in this subject which is a massive topic in itself. You could start a different thread if you want people's views on what are the problems in the UK.

I've seen a lot of this recently, in other threads.

The poster starts a "conversation" but then doesn't like the parameters of that conversation being stretched. That isn't what happens on a chat forum, you do know that don't you? I don't mind that you haven't replied to my points because, again, it's a chat forum. However, you said:

Would that really help Labour though? It seems to me that a lot of the reasons people are fed up - like the cost of living & housing crisis for example, are not his fault personally but more a result of years of underinvestment, mainly by previous Conservative governments.

The PP has mentioned some other reasons and now you are trying to suggest that discussing this would mean getting "bogged down in this subject" !!

That doesn't make sense. You either start a thread and then expect others to comment (this is AIBU - people will add their thoughts and some will not agree with you).

Twiglets1 · 10/05/2026 13:40

Freysimo · 10/05/2026 13:34

It's free prescriptions for all here in Wales and you can imagine the waste. When MIL died she had a drawer full of medications that she had just kept ordering on repeat prescription. Does no one check the repeat prescriptions? I think I could ask GP for practically anything here and I'd get it. Her meds were returned to GP surgery but I doubt they could be reused.

That's a crazy amount of waste. My MIL told me last week that she offers boxes of paracetamol to her carer as she has too many ... all on repeat prescription🙄

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 10/05/2026 13:44

summerchild82 · 10/05/2026 13:37

I've seen a lot of this recently, in other threads.

The poster starts a "conversation" but then doesn't like the parameters of that conversation being stretched. That isn't what happens on a chat forum, you do know that don't you? I don't mind that you haven't replied to my points because, again, it's a chat forum. However, you said:

Would that really help Labour though? It seems to me that a lot of the reasons people are fed up - like the cost of living & housing crisis for example, are not his fault personally but more a result of years of underinvestment, mainly by previous Conservative governments.

The PP has mentioned some other reasons and now you are trying to suggest that discussing this would mean getting "bogged down in this subject" !!

That doesn't make sense. You either start a thread and then expect others to comment (this is AIBU - people will add their thoughts and some will not agree with you).

Comment all you want but I reserve the right not to keep answering questions you are throwing at me you find interesting but I don't. I did answer your questions initially but I decide what I want to discuss, not you.

OP posts:
summerchild82 · 10/05/2026 13:47

Twiglets1 · 10/05/2026 13:44

Comment all you want but I reserve the right not to keep answering questions you are throwing at me you find interesting but I don't. I did answer your questions initially but I decide what I want to discuss, not you.

I haven't seen you reply to anything I've said. If I've missed that, then apologies.

You can decide what you discuss, yes. What you can't do is dictate how a conversation flows, or what others discuss.

Superhansrantowindsor · 10/05/2026 13:48

I am politically neutral. By that I mean that over the years I have voted for several different parties. Last election I voted for a local independent candidate. I feel the problem is with such a huge majority not much seems to be changing for the better. Shops near me are closing citing business rates and increased employee costs. There are still huge NHS waiting lists. Schools are crying out for major reform but the white paper on SEND was atrocious. I am pleased that Kier stood up to Trump but the Mandelson stuff stinks. I do think we should give him time as he inherited quite a mess but how long should we give him I’m not sure. Patience is running out.

Twiglets1 · 10/05/2026 13:57

MadderthanMorris · 10/05/2026 13:36

Labour's basic problem is that it's not just unpopular, it's unpopular with different sections of the electorate for sharply opposing reasons. So it can't solve either one of its unpopularity problems without making the others even worse.

A bunch of centrists, soft Tories etc. were just persuaded to hold their nose and vote Labour at the last election because the Tories had gotten so catastrophically awful that noone could pretend they were serious candidates for another term. These people expect reasonable continuity, a responsibly managed capitalist economy without the rampant incompetence and corruption of the Tories.

Some of these people reacted badly to what they saw as early missteps such as raising employer NI contributions. The problem with trying to satisfy them is that capitalism IS failing due to global factors far beyond the control of the UK Labour party. And also the fact that they are not long term, natural Labour voters in the first place so are unlikely to stay on side if the Tories can even slightly get their act together. I doubt the choice of leader makes much difference here.

People on the left were split, with some in marginal seats voting Labour despite being underwhelmed by their offer, but many others having given up on the party already - particularly as Starmer had shafted them in his leadership bid and then made such a show of expelling many from the party. With the Greens ascending, these people now have a practical alternative they didn't have before. And Labour has lost its capacity for including left wing perspectives within policy development.

The antipathy of this group to Labour is very largely personal, centred on Starmer, and there's nothing he could do as leader that would unburn those bridges now. Burnham might help, a bit. Streeting certainly wouldn't.

Then you have Reform voters, some of whom are ex-Tories and some ex-Labour (red wall etc.) now with a visceral hatred of Labour who they see as having betrayed them. There are socially conservative issues at play here that are pretty much impossible to square with the few remaining areas of loyalty Labour has left, among educated youngish people in cities.

A lot of these people are pretty immune to reason or analysis, are deeply attached to a victim mentality and there is NOTHING Labour could do that would satisfy them and get them onside. But there's a lot of them and they make a lot of noise, and possibly for this reason Starmer has put a lot of effort (in terms of comms and rhetoric, at least) into trying to win them back, at the expense of the other two.

This has been a spectacular failure and a demonstrable error of judgment on his part. I don't mean failure because I don't like it or the Labour party should have different priorities - I mean failure because it hasn't worked. For this reason he should probably resign. When political leaders spectacularly fail they generally resign, or at least they used to.

As for who takes over and how they square this circle, God knows. I can't think of a job I'd want less.

I agree with you that Labour is "unpopular with different sections of the electorate for sharply opposing reasons. So it can't solve either one of its unpopularity problems without making the others even worse".

And that many soft Tories only voted Labour at the last election because they were so awful and that same group will likely return to voting Conservative again at the next election as long as they have someone sensible to vote for (Kemi seems to be fulfilling that role at the moment and is rising in popularity).

A lot of what you say make sense and I take your point that maybe Starmer should resign not because it will necessarily make any difference to the success of the Labour party but more because he has demonstrably failed to win hearts and minds, and resigning would acknowledge that.

OP posts:
CandidLurker · 10/05/2026 13:59

Twiglets1 · 10/05/2026 12:22

The winter fuel allowance did get a lot of bad publicity but any other Prime minister would equally have to try to make welfare savings somewhere and they will all be unpopular.

Rising taxes would also be unpopular so basically they will get criticised whether they spend more or try to save more.

Edited to add that there are a lot of well off pensioners who don't need the winter fuel allowance and pensioners on means tested benefits would have been exempt so it wasn't the worse policy idea, in my opinion. If Reform or the Conservatives get into power at the next election, they will very likely make worse cuts than that proposed one.

Edited

The issue with WFA is that you have people who have worked all their lives, paid 40 years in NI contributions, and who only have the state pension, ending up being worse off than those who have paid nothing and are in receipt of pension credit.

Also it affected women more as generally women who are retired now definitely did not have equal pay throughout their lives and generally have much worse pension provision than men. You are generally ok if you are married but if you are single or widowed you would be in a much worse situation than a man.

Twiglets1 · 10/05/2026 14:00

summerchild82 · 10/05/2026 13:47

I haven't seen you reply to anything I've said. If I've missed that, then apologies.

You can decide what you discuss, yes. What you can't do is dictate how a conversation flows, or what others discuss.

Apologies I replied to shedmistress and got confused because you quoted me in the reply I gave to her so I thought you were her.

We seem to agree that we can all discuss what we want to discuss

OP posts:
Freysimo · 10/05/2026 17:45

And that many soft Tories only voted Labour at the last election because they were so awful and that same group will likely return to voting Conservative again at the next election as long as they have someone sensible to vote for (Kemi seems to be fulfilling that role at the moment and is rising in popularity).

I'm a 'soft Tory', although I didn't vote Labour as we had a good Tory MP ( lost seat to a young Labour chap parachuted in). I'm impressed with Kemi and think she'll do well at the next election.

Twiglets1 · 12/05/2026 09:05

Glad to see in the poll results that 79% think I am not being unreasonable.

However, it's looking like he will be forced out regardless.

Don't they know who I am??

OP posts:
ListenToTheFacts · 14/05/2026 09:16

The trouble is Labour have lived off the '14 years of Tory chaos' line and the revolving door of PMs - they cannot hold a speech without mentioning it. So for the left to now be suffering the same fate, well they are cornered. If they do the same, they are no better than the Tories and spouting the same tired lines won't work anymore. We are now in the era of Labour chaos.

Dbank · 14/05/2026 12:45

Labour are deluded.
They've just been given the clearest indication that the electorate have turned away from Labour, and they're convinced it's all the fault of one man's lack of personality.

The truth is even Labour voters don't like what they have done, and it never was KS in the driving seat anyway.

They are about to make the biggest mistake in Labour's history and will destroy the party for a generation, as they repeatedly do.

Apart from the damage it's doing to the country, I couldn't be happier.

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