AIBU - Keir Starmer's ok - getting rid of him wouldn't help Labour

[Twiglets1]

As a result of the disastrous results for Labour in the recent elections, many people - even within his own party - are now calling for Keir Starmer to stand down.

Would that really help Labour though? It seems to me that a lot of the reasons people are fed up - like the cost of living & housing crisis for example, are not his fault personally but more a result of years of underinvestment, mainly by previous Conservative governments.

Yes he does lack charisma and personally I think the Conservatives have a better leader in Kemi Badenoch. But I wouldn't vote for a political party purely based on how charismatic their leader is.

When you look at the alternatives - I like Wes Streeting but would he be able to turn around the fortunes of the Labour party before the next General Election - I doubt it. And the same goes for Andy Burnham, even if they did find a way to make him eligible for party leadership in time.

The Tories caused turmoil with their constant leadership challenges and it didn't help their brand. Starmer hasn't done anything too awful that I'm aware of - wouldn't it be better just to keep him in post?

(Cat Little) due process was followed...
also
she asked Sir Olly if she could see a document summarising the vetting agency's recommendation in relation to Lord Mandelson and the Foreign Office's final decision, as well as any records related to the decision-making process.
"It was made clear to me that that information would not be forthcoming," she told MPs.
As a result, Little said she requested the information directly from security officials, which she received on 25 March.
She did not share the information with the PM until 14 April, saying she first wanted to seek legal advice on how to handle such sensitive documents.

I think its far deeper than Starmer.
the left of the party believe their issues are because they are not left enough and that they country voted for a left wing government. Those on the right believe the opposite.
I suspect a lot of those who voted labour wanted a Blair mk2, a bit left of center govt and have realised this is not the case but also cant face the Tories again.

I agree. It’s been really refreshing to read an actual civilised discussion with no insults and sarcasm (that I’ve seen so far)

And?

There’s no requirement for that document to be shared, Starmer got that wrong.

He fired someone for doing exactly what they were meant to do. And then cowardly avoided scrutiny in a committee by whipping MPs.

In any case apart from a few on here Starmer really is an issue for voters. It was stuff such as sacking OR which shows his lack of decency and poor judgement. Most can see it.

I'm afraid you haven't read Cat Little's testimony properly. Robbins wouldn't let her see it so she got it directly from the Security. As she was obviously entitle to do as the top Cabinet Office civil servant. She then advised Starmer three weeks later. She has confirmed that due process was followed.

I have. I listened to the hearing. Little didn’t get it wrong it was the humble address that gave her that right, which she had to clarify legally.

The document is for the person only, when going through the process the person is reassured no one else will see it. Not the PM. And for good reason as soon as it travels it ends up leaked in the Guardian undermining national security,

He did the right thing, Starmer cloth eared didn’t get the process.

How will it help Labour to get rid of him at this stage?

He doesn't have a reputation for being less decent than the leaders of Reform, Greens or Conservative party does he? They have all done things that some people heavily criticise too so I don't think the voting public realistically expect their leaders to have done nothing controversial ever. It's not like the string of scandals & poor judgement that brought Boris J down.

I have gained some reasons for getting rid of him from this thread though, which is that his lack of charisma is working against him on social media. And that he doesn't seem to stand for anything in the way that Andy Burnham does, for example. So I can kinda see that Labour could benefit from another leader before the next General election, or possibly immediately after it so he can be the fall guy. I don't think replacing him will really fix Labour's problems, though, just as replacing Rishi Sunak didn't help the Tories (he was another leader who seemed fairly decent as a person but not charismatic).

No I think it’s the level of loathing that even Labour MPs even say they’ve not felt before. What they heard was very strong.

It’s not lack of charisma.

They have a tough choice.

I know this is my subjective opinion, but I feel like Keir Starmer’s colossal fuck-up is NOT that he didn’t magick up a solution for problems that couldn’t be solved in the amount of time Labour’s been in power.

It’s that under his leadership, the infighting and lack of cohesion has made Labour a laughingstock - third parties would have given their eye teeth for a majority like Labour got handed, and they’ve just squandered it. They’re acting like they just woke up in government; why the hell weren’t they ready on the ground after a decade and a half in opposition?

If people even slightly felt like Labour was devoting themselves wholly and completely to solving the huge current problems, it would have been a much different result. If Labour had even just ATTEMPTED to put out a counter-narrative to Reform, but instead, they treated it like they just needed to explain how horrible Nigel Farage was and if they did that, no one would vote Reform. I don’t even know what to say to that strategy as it’s so deluded; when people are truly starving, they’d elect the Devil himself if he promised change.

The behavior of the Labour leadership and their complete and utter lack of expertise at managing media coverage has made the whole group in Westminster look like petty, backbiting champagne socialists - whether it’s the truth or not is almost immaterial if that’s the line the whole media is peddling endlessly to the electorate.

I couldn’t have put it better myself. U turn after U turn, keeping that Reeves woman when clearly unable to fully understand the scope of her role, allowing Milliband to pursue Net Zero at cost to the wage earner…. And that is just the headlines. He knew about Mandelson, he surely knew about many other things.

@Twiglets1 He doesn't have a reputation for being less decent than the leaders of Reform, Greens or Conservative party does he? They have all done things that some people heavily criticise too so I don't think the voting public realistically expect their leaders to have done nothing controversial ever.

No and Reform have also done incredibly well in areas where Labour never feature. They have sent the Tories packing in Essex, of all places. I do not know why Reform are on a roll but it is too simplistic to keep blaming Starmer.

Lewisham just lost control for the first time since 1971. The feedback was Starmer.

Ik some don’t want to hear it, but he’s a major factor.

Wales decimated, 100 years control over.

The strategy (or lack of it) is the problem, it clearly isn't working by just about every metric apart, from the number of people employed.

I have little doubt SK will go, so they can blame him for everything, and any new dirt that surfaces from Mandy.

Much of the other "Achievements", such as reducing the waiting list have be done at huge economic cost. i.e. Paying the Jnr DRs. and outsourcing operations to the private sector.

None of them appear to understand growth ONLY comes from the private sector, which will only invest in the UK when it's more attractive than somewhere else.

Raising NI and NMW, combined with high energy taxation, and a corporation tax that 17% higher than the European average is the insanity which will no doubt continue with KS's successor.

I as many other Labour supporters are devastated by how badly it's gone and how the opportunity has been squandered.

It's not that I don't want to hear it, I don't feel strongly pro Starmer or pro any current leader really. I just feel anti some of them (Polanski and Farage).

Personally, I feel like the move towards more extreme parties is based on other factors than personality, but could be wrong. I'm interested in everyone's opinions.

Hi, I’m back.
The question is not IF it’s Starmer? We get its Starmer to a certain degree.
Our question all along, for those who keep saying it’s Starmer, is why?

Yes, that's what I'm interested in - and why I brought up Essex, as it's not a Labour heartland 😍and Reform has now got Essex council (the Conservatives had 51 of the 75 seats in the previous election).

There is a groundswell of opinion towards Reform - I think this is the main thing. It reminds me of when people felt guilty for voting Tory and not for Corbyn. I don't think everyone who is voting Reform is entirely comfortable with it and so the scapegoat is Starmer, it is easier to transfer that reponsibility to someone else. That is obviously only part of it - but it's my contribution for now.

No scandals? Is that because there is a media blackout on the Ukrainian rent boy/arson case?

You’re missing the uptick in Greens, PC and SNP due to similar factors.

Look at Wales and Lewisham for a start, but many other places.

I think there are lots of wrongs with Starmer himself. He is an elitist idiot. I put up with him because of Labour. Because I liked Labour. But I am done with him.
Will it be convenient for the country to switch PM? Likely no, in light of international chaos.
Would it be good for Labour? Absolutelly yes. But only if they manage to pick a real labour leader. Both words. Someone who thinks like a labour member (Starmer does not) and that has leading qualities ( which Starmer does not even know what they are)

He was the victim in the case of Ukranian men setting fire to his car and 2 properties if that's what you're referring to.

I would say provide a source if you know different but it seems you get your information from dubious sources.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj6p7ekwwn7o

Who do you have in mind?

True but the main shift in England has been away from Labour and towards Reform.

Given what Reform is best known for, my guess is that a lot of people are fed up that Labour are not doing enough to tackle illegal immigration.

Totally agree! And then some tit of a back bencher, who obviously hasn’t got a clue about the mood of the country or what we’re all pissed off about is trying to kickstart a leadership contest! To be honest it’s the Labour backbenchers that’s I’m more pissed off with than Starmer himself!

@MulberryBrandyi totally agree. This is not a Starmer problem. Trouble is Labour traditionalists don’t like him because he had attempted to help out middle earners and kickstart the economy! But the back benchers didn’t like that, so we got U Turn after U Turn. Instead of sorting out the welfare system we’re giving even more towards it, leaving a bitter taste in middle earners mouths. I blame the back benchers for this mess and that utter idiot Catherine West piping up yesterday to send the country into more chaos. But unfortunately Starmer is the fall guy. The majority of us want stability and to kick start the economy, not to be constantly told more hand outs are coming at the expensive of small businesses and hard working middle earners! Most people just want more money in their pockets.

I would say the constituencies that voted predominantly Reform have sent a pretty clear message about their main concerns.

Yet some people don't seem to be picking up the signal and are suggesting instead that the issue could be solved by choosing a new leader or Labour moving further to the Left.