AIBU - Keir Starmer's ok - getting rid of him wouldn't help Labour

[Twiglets1]

As a result of the disastrous results for Labour in the recent elections, many people - even within his own party - are now calling for Keir Starmer to stand down.

Would that really help Labour though? It seems to me that a lot of the reasons people are fed up - like the cost of living & housing crisis for example, are not his fault personally but more a result of years of underinvestment, mainly by previous Conservative governments.

Yes he does lack charisma and personally I think the Conservatives have a better leader in Kemi Badenoch. But I wouldn't vote for a political party purely based on how charismatic their leader is.

When you look at the alternatives - I like Wes Streeting but would he be able to turn around the fortunes of the Labour party before the next General Election - I doubt it. And the same goes for Andy Burnham, even if they did find a way to make him eligible for party leadership in time.

The Tories caused turmoil with their constant leadership challenges and it didn't help their brand. Starmer hasn't done anything too awful that I'm aware of - wouldn't it be better just to keep him in post?

Labour moving further to the left won't pick up disaffected Reform voters. Tony Blair was successful because he was left of centre. Even I voted for him and I'm centre right!

@Twiglets1they are fucking idiotic and any MP that thinks like that is self serving and doesn’t give a shit about the electorate! And any leftie calling for Starmer’s resignation is the same and might as well defect to the god awful Green Party or the utter shite that is Your Party!

His judgement is terrible, he has the charisma of a mouldy flannel, he sounds awful… he’s not in control

Wes Streeting I love
Andy Burnham just no

I agree and I voted for Blair too - more than once.

He somehow seemed to be able to convince everyone that Labour filled the whole spectrum from left of centre to right of centre.

I think the current Labour party is also trying to appeal to everyone, but unfortunately failing to do so. Immigration has become a big issue and voters seem to want parties to have a clear stance on whether they are fully against managing the numbers of both legal and illegal immigrants (Reform) or fully in favour of open borders (Green).

100% agree with you.

It also doesn't help that the UK has a strong right-leaning media (owned by multimillionaires/billionaires - what a surprise) who have not reported on all that Labour have achieved.

As others have said, Labour were handed a country in distress, thanks to repeated voting for Conservatives. It is not possible to change that around in a short time-frame. Sadly I don't think it's possible in a medium time-frame for the whole nation.

Keir lacks charisma (possibly more so now that before!), but he is steady and not rudderless, which England needs. I wish he'd directly address people's concerns better. I can't see how he isn't for the chop, but it's not going to improve anything.

It is fucking ridiculous. The Mandelson business hasn’t gone away, the other crony Matthew Doyle’s friendship with another convicted pedo (who had been a Labour councillor🙄) was back in the headlines again a few weeks ago. What’s Starmer gone and done? Given Harperson a job. Nice one. Keir. Just continue to fan the flames of Labour being the pedophile apologists party.

I remember when the whole links to Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) issue blew up. I was initially prepared to give Harman the benefit of the doubt but her Newsnight interview with Laura Kuenssberg changed that. Harman didn’t give a satisfactory account to questions Laura K asked. Then more details emerged.
It all sounded far too cosy a relationship with PIE when Harman had been working for what is now called Liberty.

Another ridiculous aspect to Harman and Brown getting roles is they were both at the helm when Labour lost the 2010 election and went into Opposition for 14 years. So you appoint those 2 just after the calamitous election results yesterday! It’s beyond.

That is a factor, and a new leader might not resolve it. But really all that needs to happen for some of the questions is to turn on the radio - Times in particular.

All this stuff is being discussed, with people who were talking to the electorate directly. Loathing of Starmer came up repeatedly. It’s now up to Labour to decide what to do about that.

As for moving left or right with policy, neither will help much as votes are being shed in both directions.

Many did. But he also was very different to the current PM. Plus happy to grow the private sector unlike now.

Yup I agree with all that.

I get most of my information from the BBC and the Telegraph (I know it has a right wing bias but they were the most informative about new developments during the Covid years and I've stuck with them since).

I thought the BBC was supposed to be neutral - but they don't report on Labour achievements either. Someone up thread posted a website on where Labour are with their commitments and some that have already been achieved, I was completely unaware of until reading that post.

It doesn't help that our media prefers to talk about bad news than good news.

I’m not sure about the ‘we’ part in this, some are still blaming the media, guilt over shifting to Reform, or other stuff.

The best way to understand why is to just read posts on it, here or elsewhere as mn is quite pro Starmer.

If the party can accept there is a leader problem they can decide what to do. It still might be ok nothing, we’ll have to live with that for various reasons. Just don’t ignore the feedback from the electorate.

I think the word “we” in the post by @SkipAd is appropriate.

Most of us defending Starmer do not deny he lacks charisma so in a sense, his personality is part of the problem.

But he had the same personality when Labour got voted into power and we knew who we were getting as Leader. So his personality is not likely to be the biggest issue as to why voters have turned against Labour, in my opinion anyway. They blame him because he represents Labour but a different person would soon be blamed too.

Well yes exactly his lack of charisma was known, which is why I said it’s not that.

There’s still a deep loathing there, and it’s that part you are missing.

No we get that. We are asking WHY there is a deep loathing?
And to be fair, many people have given their reasons and we’ve learnt a lot.

To me, it’s a bit like the blue dress/gold dress thing. I agree with @Twiglets1 and think he’s a good, sensible, well meaning PM so I am genuinely trying, like she is to understand the deep loathing for him.

Your best bet is to just listen and read stuff, not on mn pretty much, but if you see someone being shouted down re Starmer views it’s probably close.

There’s a good journo quote from the coverage elections aren’t earthquakes they’re aftershocks. Meaning voters decided much earlier and the day is just reflecting those choices.

Having picked up commentary neither the results nor the reasons coming in are a surprise.

Just be more open to what people are saying and you’ll find out the why.

I think we will continue to ask various questions about this subject. To widen it a bit again - for perspective rather than being just in a groove - on many Mumsnet threads there seemed to be huge dislike for Polanski. However, the Greens have won many seats at the elections.

It is important for this wider discussion not to be shut down. 😀

Yes exactly.

We’ve learnt some reasons why.

Though in my heart I still feel like every political leader is flawed and the new Labour leader if they get one will also be unpopular. Partly because of their own personality but mainly because of the state of the country & general discontent. This is something Labour inherited to a large degree and can’t be easily fixed even if they knew how to fix it ( not sure they do).

Unfortunately Wes used to be on a group that was dedicated to kicking women out of the Labour Party just because they had once expressed that they knew the dfferencce between man and women. He is no friend of any woman.

Oh dear and he would have been my preferred choice to replace Starmer. Will need to look into this.

It isn't them not knowing how to fix it, it is that they are all driven by ideology and have no idea why, they are unable to identify experts who do, as even attending briefings or getting people around the table to discuss possible solutions means they would be shunned by their own people. Because the understanding is that you do not talk to people not on your side. And the only people on their side are also ideologically driven.

They are completely underpinned by their union and activist backers and do what they are told to do.

he’s a good, sensible, well meaning PM so I am genuinely trying, like she is to understand the deep loathing for him.
When you set yourself up to be better than others then you are setting yourself up for a fall. 'Good' but appoints paedophiles. 'Sensible' but introduces policies which destroy jobs (remember he promised growth). 'Good' but has the political compass of a weather vane, nobody know what he stands for.

It doesn't help when you see NeverHereKeir back-slapping foreign leaders. He's very comfortable in the company of them but cannot communicate with the British public. He doesn't understand them and is doing nothing to make their lives better. That's why they don't like him.

This is also true.

I didn’t say he IS, I said he SEEMS like to me, which is why I and others were asking a well meaning question, in order to understand more.

You have certainly given me your, rather strong, opinion as to why people might not like him, which is after all what I asked for.

This is exactly the problem. The UK is in decline and none of them want to be the 'bad' guy who fixes it (or tries to).
I think KS is probably a decent guy but just not strong enough for the job (which in fairness probably demands balls of steel). It seems he and RR were on the right track at the start cutting fuel allowance and trying to cut benefits but of course their own party wouldn't let it go through or something.
Another leader for labour would almost certainly be further to the left and this would be bad for the country.

Why? Because they would increase spending which we can't afford. The markets would also view a more left government as 'bad' and would likely increase our interest rates to borrow (bonds). As the rate is already high this is the last thing we want.

Someone in government is going to have to start talking the truth. The UK is broke and if we don't start trying to turn it round now by growing economy, cutting welfare etc then the IMF will likely be the end result (and then it will all be cut anyway).

I think KS is in over his head. I think he would be an excellent foreign minister and I think they do plan to keep him for a role like that. Another change of PM will be viewed as 'bad' by the market though as like I say it will almost certainly be a more left wing one who will increase spending.

In a weird way I almost want the decline to speed up. I mean if they are not going to fix it, then I would rather the end comes quicker so someone (IMF) is forced to start turning it around.

The decline has been happening since 2008 so no, it's not KS fault but he has made it worse. I despair if any party will actually have the balls to turn it around. The only party worse for our economy at the moment would be a green government. I think the greens are getting votes from the youngsters as a 'fuck you' to society because they can't afford house, can't get a job etc and while I understand this completely it would be a disaster.

We probably actually need a hard line government like Reform (if they actually do what they say they will). I would argue they need to go further though and get rid of the triple lock as well.

The future is going to be tough for the UK. There is no way round that. The sooner we (and the government) start to say it out loud and adjust, the better.

Disagree that it isn't them not knowing how to fix it.

If anyone knows how to fix this country then why the hell don't they do it? The Conservatives couldn't and now Labour can't.

They are all clueless in my opinion but would love to hear which politician anyone thinks has all the answers to fixing Britain.

Saying he is the least worst of a bad lot or that other party leaders are worse couldn't be much more damning by faint praise if it tried.

I thought rather low of him already with all his u-turns and "resets" and other people deciding his opinions for him. Then came the frankly embarrassing spectacle of the Mandelson saga and his whiny denials, topped off yesterday with the Harman and Brown announcements, both of which are the acts of a desperate man.

I'd rather a PM that at least had some gumption about himself ("herself" seems vanishingly unlikely based on their history). His own party are gunning for him anyway.