AIBU - Keir Starmer's ok - getting rid of him wouldn't help Labour

[Twiglets1]

As a result of the disastrous results for Labour in the recent elections, many people - even within his own party - are now calling for Keir Starmer to stand down.

Would that really help Labour though? It seems to me that a lot of the reasons people are fed up - like the cost of living & housing crisis for example, are not his fault personally but more a result of years of underinvestment, mainly by previous Conservative governments.

Yes he does lack charisma and personally I think the Conservatives have a better leader in Kemi Badenoch. But I wouldn't vote for a political party purely based on how charismatic their leader is.

When you look at the alternatives - I like Wes Streeting but would he be able to turn around the fortunes of the Labour party before the next General Election - I doubt it. And the same goes for Andy Burnham, even if they did find a way to make him eligible for party leadership in time.

The Tories caused turmoil with their constant leadership challenges and it didn't help their brand. Starmer hasn't done anything too awful that I'm aware of - wouldn't it be better just to keep him in post?

Yes, this. They have spent too much time trying to appeal to people who aren’t going to vote for them anyway. Reform might be new, but there’s always been a lot of extreme right wing people in working class areas (I know because I grew up in a community like that - all voted for Thatcher even though she was making them poorer).

Not quite always been like that. I remember when Tony Blair & "new Labour" was first in power there was a real sense of optimism in the air and even the media gave them an easy time for a while.

That has been lacking for a long time now!

I agree it was like a burden had rolled off our shoulders after the oppression of the Thatcher years. Remember though, Blair had the unusual advantage of a Labour leader close to Rupert Murdoch. Of course, that all went sour .... but that is another story

In the social media age I am afraid how you come across does matter. He is flat.
There are too many people who just listen to soundbites. And don’t look at things any further.
He came in with a large majority and has, frankly, squandered it.
Rachel Reeves as Chancellor was a terrible choice.
He does have a troublesome party which helps nobody who leads Labour. They have no self discipline.
And has flipped and flopped. The U turns. He seems to have no stomach or conviction for any policy.
The freebies were a disaster as was Mandelson.

This election was a protest vote. But a bloody nose. They don’t know what they believe. They shouldn’t have to go back and think about what the electorate wants. They should stand on what they believe in.
What is that ? I don’t know. Nor I think, do they.

I voted for them, but to be honest, I don’t think any of them are much good.

Starmer’s more middle manager than leader, but if he had the right people around him, it wouldn’t matter too much.

The MPs are panicking because the council elections have shown them what way the wind is blowing politically, and they’re fearful of being out of work in a couple of years.

I hope Starmer has a big reshuffle (predicted anyway) to try and improve the whole thing. 🤷‍♀️

OK, that’s interesting.
I did mean that I believe he went into politics because of his beliefs rather than it being something traditionally the second son did, or to advance his career prospects, but I take your point.
I always hated it when Thatcher said “this lady’s not for turning” even when the mood of her backbenchers or the country was against her. It smacked of not listening to others to me. But maybe you’re right and the country wants somebody who will stick to his guns regardless.

I’m stepping away now because I really have to go out but I just wanted to thank you all for one of the calmest, well reasoned political discussion that’s been on here for a while, it’s made a really nice change.

Mainly where not all seats were up for grabs.
I was thinking of places such as Sunderland, Wigan

I don’t think a reshuffle will help.

I am left wing so really am desperate to agree with you but what are the improvements you can see Labour are bringing? I can only see a litany of very bad decisions which are compounding the disaster that was brexit and further bringing the country to its knees. That said I don’t see how a new prime
minister would help at this point…

And thank you for being part of the pleasant discussion. I agree it makes it so much nicer when we can all discuss differences of opinion politely and who knows, maybe even learn something from others!

By the book, what like giving Peter Mandleson the top job?

Are you talking about a different Starmer?

Any government who gets in has exactly the same problem. We don't have enough money to pay for the things we want. The government publish all the figures so it is very easy to see how much everything costs.

No scandals? Again, you mean a different Starmer surely?

p10 of manifesto
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Labour-Party-manifesto-2024.pdf

Delivery economic stability
Cut waiting list times
launch a new border security command
Set up Great British Energy
Recruit 6500 teachers

P23
 Deliver economic stability with tough spending rules
 A new partnership with business to boost growth everywhere
 A National Wealth Fund to invest in jobs
 Planning reform to build 1.5 million new homes
 Devolution of power across England
 A New Deal for Working People

P47
 Set up Great British Energy to cut bills for good
 Energy independence from dictators like Putin
 650,000 new high-quality jobs
 Warmer homes to slash fuel poverty
 Water companies forced to clean up our rivers

P61
 Crack down on antisocial behaviour with more neighbourhood police
 Tough new penalties for offenders
 A plan to get knives off our streets
 A specialist rape unit in every police force
 A new network of Young Futures hubs

P75
 Recruit 6,500 new expert teachers in key subjects
 3,000 new primary school-based nurseries
 Free breakfast clubs in every primary school
 A modern curriculum so young people are ready for work and life
 High-quality apprenticeships and specialist technical colleges

P91
 Cut NHS waiting times with 40,000 more appointments every week
 Double the number of cancer scanners
 A new Dentistry Rescue Plan
 8,500 additional mental health staff
 Return of the family doctor

P105
 A new Ethics and Integrity Commission
 Modernise the House of Commons
 Immediate reform of the House of Lords
 A reset between Westminster and Holyrood, Cardiff Bay, and Stormont
 Votes at 16

P115
 An unshakeable commitment to NATO and our nuclear deterrent
 Standing up for our armed forces and veterans
 New trade agreements
 Britain leading a Clean Power Alliance
 Modernise international development

Is there a labourite in the house who'll go through and say what they've done for each point?

(I can see the standing up for armed forces above and instantly am reminded of: While Keir did not directly prosecute soldiers, the case he led helped establish that Human Rights law applied to soldiers in Iraq, leading to extensive investigations and criticism from veterans)

Stupid Labour Party with its infighting

if they didn’t block his reforms of welfare and benefits they wouldn’t be in such trouble now, a bit rich blaming him instead of taking responsibility for the fact they as a party can’t deliver

Agree. I’m so bored of the anti Keir rhetoric. Whoever replaces him will be faced with the same tricky policy decisions and will face the same barrage of hate from the media and public.

I felt the same way about Theresa May and all the subsequent prime ministerial changes in the conservative government.

People need to grow up and recognise that there isn’t a utopia around the corner if only we had the right leader.

https://pledgeprogress.co.uk

That is a hobby site by one person.

Starmer was not responsible for vetting Mandleson but did say at the investigation that he felt "full due process" had been followed in the appointment of him in December 2024.

More details about Mandleson didn't emerge until September 2025 and after the emails came to light that revealed the depth of Mandelson's ties with Epstein, Starmer did sack him.

Sir Olly said in a letter to the committee: "When the prime minister informed the House that the proper process had been followed in respect of NSV [National Security Vetting], he was correct."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj949mj41vlo

It’s exactly what the poster was looking for. It shows which pledges have been kept, which are being worked on, and which have no evidence of progress. There are sources backing up each claim. The website tracks pledges regardless of which Government is in power. Are you aware of a better source? No harm in sharing alternatives that you’re aware of!

Yes, I remember agreeing with a colleague who said about Theresa May: "I don't know what's she's done wrong". Yet, on TV yesterday, we had an overwrought Victoria Atkins (as usual) emotionally berating Jenrick over 'trust'. Giving him the ideal opportunity to criticize Kemi (as usual). Look at them - these are your alternatives:

'Rob hasn't spoken to me': awkward reunion of former Tory ministers - BBC News

That's an interesting website, thank you.

I saw this, it was quite entertaining watching a former Tory minister attack the government he’d been a part of.

And yes I thought Theresa May was unfairly maligned and attacked. Similarly to Keir, the attacks were based on a dislike of her as a person than on her policies.

football analogy - increasingly when things aren't going well (and sometimes even if they are) the easiest, quickest, cheapest thing to do is to change the manager. This happens because even when they're terrible, you can't just sack all the players, you also can't sack the board overnight, you can't build a new stadium in a week, you can't turn the clock back ten years and improve your scouting network.

I think Starmer will go soon, but the problems in the Labour party (and politics more generally) are deep-rooted and there are no easy or quick solutions.