OH wants custody of baby niece?

[milkshakess]

So OH's younger sister has recently had a baby and there is possibility that the baby may end up in care.

She already has an 18 year olds on who has lived with their mum since he was 8.

She dips in and out of his life, she even forgot his last birthday, she hasn't really been a mum to him at all. Despite this he has turned out to be a lovely, smart and hard working lad.

Everyone was so surprised by the pregnancy.

From what we understand she was kept in hospital for 2 weeks whilst some kind of team were getting stuff ready for the baby.

I think the hospital staff were monitoring and observing her interact with the baby and something must of been flagged?

Her mum has sold her house and was due to move abroad in September but she had been visiting her and the baby at the hospital daily and helping.

OH isn't really close to his sister but he is close to her son, he calls OH the "best uncle" as him and the other uncles have all chipped into help raise him.
OH would sometimes not see his sister for years and she was always changing her number and would have to talk to her though her son.

Anyway the family don't want the baby to end up in care but everyone has young kids themselves ( we have toddlers and are trying for a 3rd).

OH wants to go for custody but the care would really fall on me and I work from home and have a very flexible job.

Just wanted input on the situation as OH and the family don't want the baby to go into care

Honestly op if you agreed I’d want it to be.

One, prior to partner should become a husband to help ensure your financial safety

Two, the baby is officially adopted by you and then husband. The biological mother can be an aunty.

Would you not consider this child to be your third baby? If not then no you shouldn’t offer to care for her.

and I say that as an adopted person.

Oh Lord give me strength.

Agreed. Given the SIL history, the only way this could work long term with minimal chaos for all (especially the baby) is if OP and her 'husband' had legal status as parents.

Not the way that the mum wants it

she is still mum

doesn’t want baby to be adopted

but can’t seem to look after her by herself

Firstly, you both need to get some support to understand the situation better and to fully appreciate that adopting/becoming kinship carers is not the same as having a child through birth.

Even children adopted at birth carry a level of trauma. Even those who have not experienced trauma in utero, still experience trauma from separation even if they are too young to consciously remember. This can often mean these children have a level of support needs other children won’t. This is often further complicated when adopted/cared for by family. While it is always best for children to remain in the care of their natural family, the complications arise due to being closer, and perhaps in some form of disorganised contact, with their parents. It is extremely difficult to completely separate them from a family member, and while, as I say, outcomes are usually better, it’s not without issue.

You also need to fully understand why they are considering separating the baby from their mother, what the concerns are and if there is any possibility of future reunification. This may change your decision one way or the other. If the baby is likely to have experienced trauma in utero, or have been exposed to substances for example, you need to fully understand the consequences of this and the likelihood that the baby will have additional needs or disabilities. This may also impact your decision either way. You want to be armed with as much information as possible and weigh up the impact on your whole family, including how this will affect the time and resources you have for your older children. It’s the same as thinking about how this would look if your 3rd was to sadly have a disability. However, the likelihood of a child born in these circumstances, of having a level of added need, is sadly much higher.

You need to be completely honest with dh. He needs to understand this decision cannot be made simply out of love and keeping family together. He needs to fully understand the ramifications of this decision now until that baby is an adult.

You can’t be on the fence about this. You need to be 100 percent sure because if you do this, when the going gets tough, the further damage caused to the baby if you throw the towel in will be significant.

It’s extremely difficult but you have to try to remove emotion from this decision (both of you).

If in any doubt, don’t do it and be honest with dh now.

It’s ok pp saying dh needs to tell you how HE will care for the baby, not leave it to you, but let’s all be honest, talk is cheap. When living this reality, is that going to stick for more than the first few months, what if he does not stick to his side of the deal, what if slowly he pushes more care onto you? You cannot simply decide to ignore or neglect the child, or separate your family? Leave him alone to care for the baby, separating the baby who has bonded with your other children and visa versa. You both need to be prepared to care for this baby equally.

Hours later I open the thread @nomas and people are still the “you need to adopt her?!!! She’s your third baby!!”
STILL bloody ignoring the fact that the mum doesn’t want to give the baby up, she wants to be like Victorian parents and hand the baby to someone else to do the messy, difficult, exhausting bits…and then swan in for the TikTok worthy bits without the bit of financing the child rearing of course!

Exactly! I wonder what drives people to post this repetitive platitude, is it some sort of chemical in their brain that gets released when they type it?

They’d be better off donating to a cat sanctuary
for a dose of feel good energy.

I said growing up I made that assumption, because it was my experience. I learned long since that it isn’t. I have read the fictional works of Jane Austen yes, but learned much more about family dynamics through practising criminal law and from going through the process of becoming a foster carer and an adopter.

It's a tough ask to want a pensioner to take on responsibility for a mentally ill adult with a history of abandoning babies and a new baby with unknown needs plus potentially facilitate contact with the father/paternal family.

Again I knew a school mum, friend of DDs who did this when her daughter (who suffered mental illness plus was involved in a DV relationship) gave birth to a 10lb baby of unknown gestation, without warning and without maternity care at a party one New Years Eve.

The daughter "A" was not deemed capable of caring for the newborn, but A didn't want to terminate her parental rights and SS were happy to give A lots of chances. It was hell for A's mum as she was expected to facilitate contact between the baby and A's abusive, drug addict boyfriend and it took several months of violent incidents before she managed to ban him from her home. When the baby was approx 18 months - A left the baby and went back to the violent boyfriend - leaving her mum literally holding the baby. A still drifts in and out but because her mother is a Kinship Guardian - A still has parental responsibility.

I don't think OP is being offered the chance to adopt the baby - I think her DP is being offered possible Kinship Guardianship which is not the same thing at all - usually the baby's mother would still have parental responsibility.

It's more like being a family foster carer

Kinship care is different because you do not adopt the child. You are basically the foster carer while the biological parents retain parental responsibility.

Considering you want a third child, I’d say taking on this child is a better option but you seem hesitant about it. If you’re adopting then your niece becomes your third baby and you would treat her as your own.

I agree, from what OP says, this is what the SIL is envisaging.

From SIL’s perspective, it worked last time with her son with minimal effort from her, so everyone should happily put their lives on hold and do it again for her daughter.

P.S kinship care is always the starting point where the foster carer is a family member. Adoption is a possibility but wouldn’t be considered until the possibility of long term placement and permanence has been assessed.

The grandmother has spent the last 18+ years raising her dd's first child who she also abandoned - perhaps we could cut her some slack

I agree.

It sounds like part of the pressue on OP is because the DGM who raised the last child for 18 years - is worried sick and thinking about cancelling her long term plans of a move abroad. Clearly the family and OP are worried she going to shelve her plans possibly again.

It also sounds like the babies mother has a long histroy of mental issues and causing the wider family problems - that will have been very draining on the DGM as well. It's not even clear how old DGM is or how good her health or that SS would consider her suitable for another 18 years of child rearing.

What's your advice then?

OP is not being offered adoption because her SIL doesn't want to give up the baby. What is being proposed is some sort of Kinship Guardianship whereby SIL can drift in an out of her child's life when she feels like it and retain certain parental rights.

OP is also not biologically related to this baby and not married to her OH - so it is possible that OP may end up with no rights to the child she raised.

Maybe to do something that’s actually possible in the circumstances?

Hi MilkyLeonard, thanks for answering a question that wasn't directed at you. I am not the only one that suggested adoption, and nowhere has the OP said this isn't an option. What's your clever advice that's 'actually possible in the circumstances'?

The SIL is being allowed to have her cake and eat it. I appreciate she has significant mental health issues & isnt acting out of malice but I would be concerned that she might go on to have another baby after this one.

You don't have to have an answer to know what cannot happen.

I don’t need to give “clever advice”. Nobody does. Not saying anything is perfectly permissible - and a much better option than the one you have taken, which is to suggest something that isn’t actually possible and then criticise others when they point that out.

OP hasn’t said adoption is not an option because several people on the thread - including those who have been a family member or on the social services or legal side of similar scenarios - have already covered this point.

A little reading does wonders.

The beauty of a public forum is the variety of perspectives, and there’s really no need to police how others brainstorm. OP asked for advice and I gave my 2 pence, as did everyone else. I apologise profusely that I haven’t kept an up-to-the-minute log of every new post or legal consensus in the thread to edit my suggestions accordingly.

You’re quite right, though—saying nothing is a perfectly permissible option. It’s just a shame you didn’t take your own advice, as your lecture on 'reading' adds significantly less to the conversation than the suggestion you’re complaining about.