Was I U to tell a doctor she’ll understand when she’s a mum?

[Calmondeck]

I usually hate when people say things like “you’ll only understand when…”, “you don’t know because you’ve never…” etc etc

But today I found myself telling a newly graduated doctor that she won’t understand until she’s a mother.

For context, a neighbour (aged 4) had a huge crash on their bike. Their helmet was dented from the impact and they had blood gushing from their forehead. There were no other adults around, just myself and my children, I attended to the child until his mother found him. At this point the child and I were covered in so much blood that both our shirts were soaked.

By coincidence the mother had a friend present, a newly graduated doctor, who told us proudly that she’s so used to seeing screaming children and overly anxious parents that she’s immune to it. She just walks into anxious rooms and “ignores the vibe”.

There was a pause, and I found myself saying she’ll understand if she ever becomes a mother.

She didn’t say anything in reply.

This has got under my skin. My child fought cancer for several years at an age where his doctors really relied on my husband and I to interpret his pain, translate toddler speak, spot symptoms etc. The team told us on day 1 of the diagnosis that no one knows the child better than the parents (they actually said mother but I chose to ignore this slightly patriarchal view) and they needed us to be vocal. My husband and I, who are pretty relaxed, originally thought “we’ll trust the professionals (ie the doctors)” but realised quickly that we really did need to point out things.

I see this neighbour almost daily, and will run into her doctor friend undoubtedly over the coming days (she is staying with them). Would it be unreasonable to tell her she needs to stop being immune to upset kids and their appropriately concerned parents?

She does need to be immune to the distress of children and their parents. She needs to focus on being a professional, assessing the facts of the situation, and getting the child the help it needs. To do this, emotions have to a take a back seat, way way back.You'll understand this if you ever become a doctor.

I think that's nonsense. There is this little thing called empathy which enables others to understand why other people might react as they do without necessarily living their exact experience.

I am a parent, but there is no great mystery that was revealed to me when I became a parent, and I was perfectly capable of understanding and empathising with parents before I had my own dc.

And in any case, not all parents would react to the same situation in the same way anyway.

Sorry OP I think YABU here. You basically implied that she won’t be good at her job unless her becomes a mother.

Also I think you’re conflating two different situations and the skills required to deal with them. This was an acute medical situation. Those require Drs, nurses, paramedics etc to use quick thinking, assess the patient on brief or no medical history and remain calm during the commotion. And yes a lot of the time that involves ignoring screaming children and hysterical parents in order to get to the crux of situation and prevent it escalating.

Dealing with medical issues that affect long term health are a very different process. There is no imminent medical emergency. You have more time to get to know your patent, their history, behaviour patterns in order to decide which course of treatment is best or having the best impact

Thank you!! I wish more parents would understand that that's not a life goal for a lot of women.

I understand what she means when you see some parents carry on.

There was no need for the doctor to make that kind of comment and it's hard to understand why she did, except as some kind of expression of "superiority", quite abrasive in this context where empathy would be more appropriate.

The level of arrogance towards parents is so ethinh I didn't understand until I was a parent, I'm sure I was an a hole hundreds of times unwittingly (not a doctor but a clinician) she sounds embarrassingly stupid. I've had kids in hospital for serious conditions over the years, eldest had recurrent seizures and was resuscitated several times and honestly the things I've encountered. What an idiot she sounds. She'll learn but it'll take time.

Sometimes you do just need to take a breath and realise they don't get it and that's their issue not yours.

However she also needs to learn not to declare that to a parent dealing with an injured child in the moment, even if that parent is her friend

To thos sayjng she may not want kids or become a parent I totally agree however working in healthcare you do learn more compassion over time and get your edges knocked off through experience. The arrogance that newly qualified doctors often start out with goes over time as well because they learn the limitations of their role and that tends to change their perspective too. It's not just having kids that changes perspective. However much you think you understand being a parent though you really don't until you are one and I say that as someone who had my kids in my late 30s so I've plenty of life experience on the other side of it, being told I didn't understand and being sure I did.

I don't mean this in a 'you don't understand love until you've had a child's way, we love plenty in our lives without children, it's the worry. I've never known anything else like the worry for a sick child and I've worried over many things and lost many family members and been in many horrible situations but none compare to being in a life threatening situation for my child. The level of fear I can't imagine relating to anything else. And I watched my mum with and die from a horrible illness on her 50s so I've known deathbeds and hospitalisations before kids.

She shouldn't have said that, and you shouldn't have said what you did.

Part of being a doctor is dealing with people, not just their ailments and injuries. Even though she was off duty, she should have been more professional.

You were rude in your response, which isn't something to evsr say to a woman. But I can see why you met her comment with yours.

How is the child?

I work in healthcare and you do need a clear head, and a calm demeanour to deal with anxious patients, families, etc. You have to establish facts, and it can be hard to do that when people are flapping and fussing, so yes, to an extent you do have to sidestep that, and you do need to be able to operate calmly and efficiently even when there are screaming children, crying, shouting, etc. Nobody wants to see an anxious, panicking HCP. You need to be the one who isn't panicking. I've had to speak firmly and sometimes a bit sharply to parents in my time to get the information needed to assess a child's mental health needs in a time limited situation, because if I didn't, that child wouldn't get the right help. Sometimes I had to tell parents quite bluntly to put their phones away and focus on the assessment and whoever was messaging for updates would have to wait.

The skill set I've just described is, however, different to ignoring reasonable parental concerns or failing to consult parents regarding their child's needs or comfort. I think perhaps she's explained it poorly and it's got conflated.

A good doctor stays calm in the face of parental/relative concern (I'm not going to use 'hysteria' because it makes it sound like it's completely irrational). A great doctor assesses the level of concern alongside the objective facts and deals with both the needs of their patient and the concern of the relatives.

When we presented to A&E, the medical team were unconcerned about DH. I knew he was more unwell than they thought he was, and pointed out that, when well, he has a low resting HR so his 'mildly elevated' HR was actually very elevated. I also pointed out that he has been to the GP twice in 10 years, both times for injury. Never for illness. I am an ex ITU nurse, to be fair, so I have an 'ill-dar'.

He sat quietly in a chair while they did all their tests. No fuss. They suddenly swooped in to move him to a trolley and have a Consultant see him because he had severe pneumonia. They had missed the fact that his fingers were yellow, they couldn't get an O2 sats reading because his circulation was shutting down in his peripheries, and his lactate was high on his blood gas. It was only once his CRP came back at over 600 that they realised he was really unwell. They hadn't seen the big picture.

Nobody needs a panicking doctor, but a concerned parent should alert a doctor to the fact that either the child is more unwell than they seem to be, or the parent needs reassurance.

Actually I think you are overthinking it. I would take from that what she means is that she isn’t emotional in these types of situations just like a doctor should be. She can ignore stressed out parents and their emotions in order to assess the situation. It doesn’t mean she’s going to ignore what the parents are saying just the stressed vibe.

im not a doctor and I react like this too in these situations. My husband had a terminal illness and I was able to zone out of all emotions so that i could deal with the pressing issues being asked by me of the doctors. Like you family thought I was unreasonable but the tasks in hand needed to be dealt with practically and in a calm manner.

She sounds like a patronising unhelpful twit, but your comment was still unreasonable. She may not ever want children or even be unable to have them.

You would definitely be unreasonable to bring it up again should you see her or the neighbour, just let it go.

I would not say that to anyone. It's quite offensive. It's saying you are not empathetic enough now, and it's also saying they need to have children to become more so.

I don't even think it's about empathy, it's about being able to detach and remain calm in an emergency. I can do this, have done though various medical emergencies with my DM, DH and DC. It's nothing to do with being a mother, it's just an ability. My DH and DF both fall apart in emergencies but I am OK.

Oh no OP. Cringing for you

I'm currently this situation with DH and you have to have a degree of detachment to deal with the problems. You were patronising - you don't know her situation.

I don’t know why she worded it that way, it’s strange. She should have just reassured you both and got to work checking him over.

YABU. If doctors were as emotional as mothers, we'd never get any care that would go beyond screaming and crying. They need to be detached, to a point, to get a job done. So, yes, YABU.

Doctor here (and mum). I think she was insensitive and that what you said will probably have given her useful pause for thought. It's easy to be arrogant when you're newly qualified and inexperienced (and it's probably self-protective against all the horrible things you see tbh) but you can't "ignore the vibe" as a doctor, no. And that phrase alone is so dismissive and condescending that I think you said the right thing, quite measured of you really

I’ve had so many people over the years say “you’ll understand when you become a mother” about various things in life. In situations like
“Oh I couldn’t watch that film. You’ll understand why when you become a mother”.
“You’ll understand what tired really means when you become a mother!”
“You’ll care more about your health when you become a mother!”
”You don’t know what love is until you become a mother!”

I looked forward to being a mother for as long as I could remember. People saying the “when you become a mother” both excited me and upset me in a weird way. It upset me because I felt like I wasn’t in some kind of “club”. Like I was immature and stupid for watching a certain film but not “understanding” why it would upset mothers.
I was also kind of excited to experience this amazing thing that everyone told me was like nothing else! I mean you love people right but apparently NOTHING is like loving a child and it’s so amazing!

Anyway turns out I couldn’t have kids. First miscarriage at 29 followed by loads more. I look back on all those people that said those things to me (and still do because I’m not quite out of the age where I could in theory have a child) and I cannot tell you how much it upsets me. It IS implying the person is somehow either too stupid or immature to understand something that only superior mothers do. It can make non parents feel like they’re not part of a special “club” that only those in it can understand certain things. You just end up feeling stupid when whatever you’ve been talking about is cut off by a version of “when you’ve grown up you won’t feel like that”.

There’s plenty of other ways of putting a point across without ever using the term “you’ll understand when you become a mother”.

It was a very charged moment, neither of you said the absolutely appropriate thing for the circumstances. Real life can be a bit messy like that. Hopefully the child is Okay?

I’m 40, became a mother at 37. I’m just as calm now in situations I was before.

About 4 years ago, our friends little boy jumped off of the slide wrong and broke his elbow. My husband and I kept calm, did a makeshift sling and dad and stepmum took him to the hospital. Once he left I let my panic out.

I have had things happen, (not as drastic) with my daughter, and stayed just as calm in the moment. Some people just can. I’m also not a doctor.

But today I found myself telling a newly graduated doctor that she won’t understand until she’s a mother. A bit presumptuous of you OP. Not everyone wants to or can become mothers. Maybe this is something you don’t understand.

That was a pathetic thing to say. People don’t become imbued with a higher level of knowledge just because they have a child.

The woman has completed many years of study - how patronising to imply she doesn’t understand. So should she only treat adults? She understands the mechanics of the human body, she doesn’t need to know the various levels of emotional competence that parents have

And as a PP said, ‘when’ you’re a mother makes you even more unreasonable. Perhaps she doesn’t want to have children? Perhaps she can’t have children? Either way it’s reductive.