to think more people just have zero self-discipline now?

[catchingup1]

It genuinely feels like self-discipline has gone out the window lately.

So much is instant. Food, shopping, entertainment, attention. A lot of people so are not able to just sit with something uncomfortable anymore or stick at anything that requires effort. If something is a bit hard, boring or inconvenient it’s immediately abandoned. Diet? Too hard. Exercise? Can’t be bothered. Even basic stuff like replying to messages or turning up on time feels optional now.

Before anyone jumps in, yes life is stressful and people are busy, I get that. But that’s always been the case in different ways. It feels like the default response now is to avoid anything that requires a bit of discipline or delayed gratification.

Even kids, and I’m not blaming them, but they’re growing up in a world where everything is on demand. Patience and self-control aren’t being built in the same way.

I’m not saying everyone is like this. But the general attitude feels very “do what feels good right now” rather than “do what’s actually good for you long term”.

I’ve heard this a lot all my life, especially from my dad. He hates WFH ect and I he also thinks he invented hard graft. I understand and don’t deny he’s worked hard in a very physical career, but sometimes I think it’s a bit misguided. Our attention spans are definitely getting worse, and I think being lazy is much easier now but on the whole I don’t think it’s that much worse. The way my dad talks you would think we were all like the fat people in Walle who whizz around on chairs getting soda and burgers rushed to us by robots.

I’ve heard this a lot all my life, especially from my dad. He hates WFH ect and I he also thinks he invented hard graft. I understand and don’t deny he’s worked hard in a very physical career, but sometimes I think it’s a bit misguided. Our attention spans are definitely getting worse, and I think being lazy is much easier now but on the whole I don’t think it’s that much worse. The way my dad talks you would think we were all like the fat people in Walle who whizz around on chairs getting soda and burgers rushed to us by robots.

But why does walking make any difference?

Ha - my dad's job is mostly manual labour and he has a very similar attitude. It's hard to really envision what people actually do in an WFH/emails job unless you've had one, in much the same way as I find that a lot of people who have only ever had desk jobs often aren't the best at pitching in, because things getting cleaned/fixed is, to them, something that just sort of happens around them whilst they wait.

Depends. In some cases emotional self regulation is expecting the world to revolve around their wants and needs. So if it doesn’t they walk out instead of working through it.

A lot of people make it into a moral issue, often because of some sort of Calvinist cultural hangover (this is something I've had to unlearn). It's not a moral issue per se but a practical one - it's hard to work towards goals if you are instantly deterred by the initial discomfort of doing so

Since I wfh (three days a week) I end up doing between 1 and 2 extra days’ worth of hours every week unpaid (because I can’t be arsed to take a lunch or to finish on time - sometimes if I am in the middle of something I don’t stop til it’s done).

When I am in the office I tend to get a lot less done because it’s harder to concentrate.

I agree. DH employs some graduates and when hiring we tend to lean towards kids who’ve worked in hospitality/retail while at uni or as a summer job. As much as I complained about working at Wetherspoons during uni I do think it gave me some good basic transferable work skills and I’ll probably make my kids do something similar. They’re better at taking initiative and pitching in without being asked.

It will partly be the rise in fast food etc. But up until the 2000s we had street cleaners. We had, once a week binmen, who came up the path and took everything. We then had people who would clean up everywhere afterwards. Some of it came under the 'parks and gardens' sector. It was a good employer for less academic/skilled workers.
Most of the adults in the 70s were smokers and drinkers.
@Elsvieta tbf you've described how men used to be. Which is why we probably have so many bitter older men, they aren't having the perks that they saw the men whilst growing up, have. You were lucky if you had affordable childcare that you could trust your three month old with.

People’s environment influences them more than they realise. It’s not a problem with people as much as the change of environment. If generations ago they had access to this instant service they’d respond similarly.

It's nice to hear this - I really do think working a "menial" job is an important formative experience, even if you do end up going onto something lofty.

@catchingup1 for some reason it's very difficult to raise a talking point on here these days without people taking offence

What you have said is encapsulated by a song lyric that I've quoted on here before "I don't like going outside so bring me everything here" - I presume nobody has yet accused Matty Healy of being horrible to people who need to use those kinds of services! (From the song "People" by The 1975) "wake up, wake up, wake up - we are appalling and we need to stop just watching shit in bed" - that was me till about 11 am.

It is a statement of society

I was talking to a much younger neighbour yesterday and I realised I haven't cooked properly for a long time! She's still at the batch cooking stage of life but that's partly financial.

I don't use Uber or Deliveroo but I am buying ready meals these days.

If you're basically worried about how all this fits into society and the mass effect, I don't blame you

I'm also worried about my own lack of self discipline these days

My parents were very self disciplined individuals who worked long hours and cooked from scratch and had time for their neighbours blah blah

I really admire that, but society has changed so much, I'm not sure that I even aim for that.

Those delivery services will always be on my list of things to avoid though - at the moment they don't do neighbourhoods any good IMHO. No doubt the MN massive will come after me for that comment.

every so often I join or start a thread on here to try and motivate myself with stuff but then usually when you're off doing things, well for me anyway, I try not to be online and then I lose track of the thread.

Those threads are always really popular though - threads about getting back on track with your housework and stuff.

at the moment I have no discipline in any area of life except work and that's a bit rubbish of me. I do think it's linked to too much scrolling and too much of a dopamine hit.

I agree with what you're saying. The band who headlined Glastonbury last year have a song about it, that's how obvious it is!

They teach important life skills

Whether or not you go into architectural or something and you're producing incredibly detailed drawings for a living, it's really useful skills to have

The first job skills are still useful to me and incredibly useful for common sense.

Well that 'ism' didn't take long! Define 'older people' please.

It's a definite no-win for the OP on this one! I like to amuse myself sometimes by looking at the original post and predicting the responses, rarely too wrong.

I would never judge other people, but I certainly recognise myself here. I think I was probably brought up with discipline but at some point I figured that life doesn’t need to be that hard. Why make things harder for yourself than they need be?

ETA - I am an ‘older person’ BTW.

Because someone said I use deliveroo and ubereats,

And I think most people try to challenge themselves in some way. But when you are an adult you have a certain amount of agency over your life.

It’s a simple sum as far as I am concerned. Is the work/time involved worth it for the end result.

So I have studied and passed exams as an adult over many months - totally worth it. However, would I cook a meal from scratch? Hell no.

So I would spend a year of my life doing something hard but rewarding but I’m not going to waste my time on things which aren’t worth the effort.

So are you saying a takeaway is ok if you walk to get it but if you have it delivered it’s a lack of self discipline?

No. Someone asked and I answered. Their posts were deleted so you cannot see the context.

Understand now?

But why do you keep labouring the point about walking?

And you posted the below

There are so many deliveroo and ubereats motorbikes everywhere now!

Obviously I don’t understand hence why I asked for clarification!

Understand now?

It related to a deleted post which you can't see.

Understand now?

How is the above related to a deleted post?

Clearly the self discipline doesn’t translate into limiting time spend on social media 😆

Eh, at some point in life you realise that "discipline and effort" are not rewarded.
That life is a scam, a trap opened for us by parents and society.
The weird thing is, this is not mine. I'm 46, but twenty-somethings people are saying this! How did they get to this conclusion so young?
Yes, I do discipline, but out of anxiety and mild OCD.
Otherwise looking forward to one day, when
I'm able to drop everything!