to think more people just have zero self-discipline now?

[catchingup1]

It genuinely feels like self-discipline has gone out the window lately.

So much is instant. Food, shopping, entertainment, attention. A lot of people so are not able to just sit with something uncomfortable anymore or stick at anything that requires effort. If something is a bit hard, boring or inconvenient it’s immediately abandoned. Diet? Too hard. Exercise? Can’t be bothered. Even basic stuff like replying to messages or turning up on time feels optional now.

Before anyone jumps in, yes life is stressful and people are busy, I get that. But that’s always been the case in different ways. It feels like the default response now is to avoid anything that requires a bit of discipline or delayed gratification.

Even kids, and I’m not blaming them, but they’re growing up in a world where everything is on demand. Patience and self-control aren’t being built in the same way.

I’m not saying everyone is like this. But the general attitude feels very “do what feels good right now” rather than “do what’s actually good for you long term”.

It's the search for novelty I find perplexing. Only the strongest and most intense flavoured foods, everything else is bland. Events now being massive, birthdays, hen nights, Easter etc. I could go on.

I’m not sure I understand the point.

I wanted a new fruit bowl for the kitchen (we didn’t have one, ours had broken), I can afford a fruit bowl, there was one available next day delivery…

Why would I wait an extra week? What’s the actual point of not getting things you can have, and need, when you can get them?

This definitely hasn’t been my experience at all. Maybe you’re hanging around the wrong people. As a family, we live a very healthy lifestyle. We don’t stuff our faces with everything we see. I don’t drink alcohol. I was up at 5am on New Year’s Day to hike and watch the sunrise from the top up the moor. I have a chronic illness and I can’t exercise like normal people do, but I’m active within my capacity. All the people around me do lots of walking, running, cycling, swimming. It’s just part of our lifestyle.

My kids know they don’t get instant gratification. They have to earn things. My 13 year old applied for her first job (and got it) working 6 hours a week as soon as she turned 13. They get chucked outside to play with no screens quite regularly.

I’m not quick at replying to messages, but that’s because I have a busy life and don’t live on my phone. I don’t think most people expect quick responses, but anyone is welcome to walk if they don’t like it. I am also quite flexible about time and as long as people update me if it’s going to be 15+ minutes, I don’t care. I consider 5pm to mean 5-5:10pm because I’m not uptight. But if someone is going to be 30 minutes late and I can’t wait, I’ll just leave. That’s fine. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Pleased to see MNHQ deleting certain posts!

Are you a paragon of self discipline OP?

It’s because in trying times - and no one can argue, these are very trying times! - we’re chasing instant dopamine hits. We get it easily from online shopping, food, alcohol etc. And you know what? Some days we need it because life can be horribly tough.
Of course it would do us more good to get the hit through exercise, being outside, connecting with people etc but when you’re exhausted and fed up, a takeaway can really do the trick.

I do we think we need it at times. That has certainly been the case for me.

I find it hard to exercise in all weathers.

I didn't vote but perhaps, I can't really speak for other people only myself but I do think its pretty easy to be distracted these days and get a quick dopamine hit from something easy as opposed to working on a harder, delayed gratification goal. I think it's an extra layer of resistance we all have to work against these days.

This is the sort of moralising generalisation that led to the austerity and family values years that we are currently dealing with in our fractured society.

Isn't the reality wages have not kept up with prices, people are 24/7 contactable, fragile housing. Benefits subsidised wages. No home economics, no focus on life skills only work ready skills. Corporations pushing convenience as a way to sell, sell, sell. Poor alternatives to the car and more ..but yeah make all those things an individual moral issue

Yes. And the sheer amount of delivery drivers on the roads and paths are a menace

Covid made clear to me that my employer didn’t value me. Friends of mine died.

i’m fucked if I’m doing things for the long term when I don’t expect to be alive overly long.

I’m medically retired now and yes I get a lot of takeaways.

so sue me.

where did you get this idea from OP?

I can’t say people in my life from previous generations actually did anything they needed self discipline for

I agree, and I found myself stuck in the instant gratification cycle since childhood due to poor upbringing. Only since last year have I been able to fully change my ways and stick to it for more than a few weeks/months. Let me tell you, the satisfaction I get from the results of hard work that I've maintained the effort and perseverance to achieve is so much more rewarding than any instant-gratification vice could ever be. I feel such achievement within myself now, it's really boosted my self-esteem.

I think a lot of people get defensive when they have this sort of question posed to them, for obvious reasons. I don't think there's anything wrong with ordering a takeaway every now and then or skipping a workout if you really don't feel up to it etc, it is all about balance. But it is a very self-sabotaging habit to choose the quick easy option every single time, though I can, to an extent, understand why people do it. Life is full of stresses and when you have the easy option handed to you on a platter, its hard not to take it. However, as you say, it takes discipline not to, which a lot of people seem to have lost these days, and I feel that is because its become so normalised to take the easy route with certain things. It's sad that such people don't understand how much better they would feel overall if they were more disciplined, and stay stuck in the defensive cycle of why they do it. Been there, done that, never going back.

Probably because you’re only seeing the end result rather than what went into it.
People didn’t call it self-discipline before, they just got on with things because they had to. Cooking from scratch daily, managing without constant convenience or distraction. That all takes a level of discipline, even if no one labelled it that at the time.

I’m not saying previous generations were somehow superior, more that the environment forced certain behaviours. You didn’t have the same level of choice or instant gratification, so sticking at things was just the norm rather than something you had to consciously work at.

Now there’s a lot more flexibility and convenience, which is great in many ways, but it also means it’s easier to opt out of anything uncomfortable.

Is it a general point or old people complaining about the young because old people today are also lacking that self discipline!

www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/07/baby-boomers-living-longer-but-are-in-worse-health-than-previous-generations

That’s not discipline, that’s a lack of choice.

My great gran used to hand wash clothes and use a mangler. That wasn’t self discipline, it’s lack of choice. Me using a washing machine doesn’t equal a lack of self discipline.

what you’re saying isn’t right .

Cooking from scratch daily, managing without constant convenience or distraction. That all takes a level of discipline, even if no one labelled it that at the time

People still cook from scratch today & weren’t the 70s/80s about microwaves & ready meals?

Can you give an example of something that has changed? I don’t have to walk to Blockbuster to rent a movie now or wait for photos to develop but I’m not sure why that would destroy my self discipline?

https://news.exeter.ac.uk/faculty-of-health-and-life-sciences/we-are-no-longer-living-longer-study-shows/

The rise in human life expectancy has slowed down across Europe since 2011, according to research involving the University of Exeter.

A new study, led by the University of East Anglia and published today in The Lancet Public Health, reveals that the food we eat, physical inactivity and obesity are largely to blame, as well as the Covid pandemic.

That’s not discipline, that’s a lack of choice

Agree, the OP is conflating things. Yes my parents didn’t get takeaways delivered but we just walked to the chippie.

I completely agree. But you’ll be hounded on here.

Yes, your great gran didn’t hand wash clothes because she’d read a book on self-discipline and fancied a challenge. It was lack of choice. But consistently doing things that are time-consuming, repetitive and not exactly enjoyable still requires a level of persistence and self-control, even if it’s not framed that way.

The difference now is we have far more choice. So the same behaviours like sticking at something, delaying gratification, doing things that are a bit of a slog often do come down to personal discipline rather than necessity.

Using a washing machine obviously isn’t a lack of discipline. But choosing not to cook, not to save, not to follow through on things because easier options exist, that’s where the comparison comes in.

People don't like talk of self discipline or even self denial I have noticed.

@catchingup1 you are confusing me? Is that linked article meant to prove a lack of self discipline?

Of course the nation is in poorer health! We are poorer, we never recovered from the financial crash, wage stagnation, austerity, lack of investment, Brexit etc

But consistently doing things that are time-consuming, repetitive and not exactly enjoyable still requires a level of persistence and self-control, even if it’s not framed that way.

I do this in my job though.