Is a St George cross an underlying sign of passive racism?

[ThatCyanJoker]

Walked past the house of a relatively new friend today and was surprised to see they’ve put up a huge flagpole, complete with St George cross flag flying high. I am generally patriotic , and put out the bunting for notable occasions without a second thought. I would probably be pleased had it been a Union Jack, but the St George has an undertone of racism to me, unless it’s flown for the football World Cup or something.
AIBU to reconsider friendship?

The most important point here is that nobody needs to make the crossing in a small boat. Once migrants/asylum seekers have reached Europe they are safe.

They come to the UK because they want to not because they need to flee France. There is a big difference.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't take our fair share of people who are genuinely fleeing but nobody needs to make that crossing.

The only people who really benefit are the traffickers. Can't believe people are ok with this.

Ok. I thought it odd to say 'not trying to have a fight' when nothing was remotely like a fight.

Perhaps that's because the working class are most affected by immigration. We don't need more unskilled workers in this country.

You cannot claim asylum from the UK until you are on UK land. Brexit created the boats, by removing the agreements we had with the EU for sending many back to the first safe country. The UK actively voted themselves OUT of that, and there is now nothing saying anything about settling in the first safe country. It’s also unfair to expect say, Turkey (who take around 100 times more asylum seekers than the UK) to have all because they’re the first ‘safe’ country.

@2dogsandabudgie unskilled roles are actually the ones that are the ones the UK struggles to fill actually. How many white British young people do you see working in the car washes? Or packing factories? Or cleaning in hospital?

Absolutely this! I can accept people saying that it may make them wonder but to be 100% certain, just no.

I think you have slightly misinterpreted the views of those who are arguing against all use of the flag being racist.

I don't think there is a person on here would would disagree with you that the far right is racist and that they have attempted to twist the national flag to their own symbol and that their use of it is a racist symbol.

The argument is that the flag existed for hundreds of years before the BNP/EDL (insert other far right groups) existed. It is the flag of England and 99% of the worlds countries are able to use their flag to show pride in their country. English people should be able to do the same without instantly being assumed to be racist just because a group of hateful individuals have tried to steal a national symbol.

In short your final paragraph is the truth and the fact you agree that not everyone who flies the flag is racist sets you apart from a number of posters who have said the opposite.

Yes exactly. I pity the OP’s “friend” for having a “friend” who evidently holds such narrow- minded, intolerant, judgmental views as the OP, and hope this friend sees sense soon and ditches the OP.

I would have one for St George’s day and to celebrate Shakespeare - his birth and expected death day is St George’s day. So I would have a flag for at least a week if I had a flagpole.
plus for world cups in football/rugby and any other patriotic events that happened.

I suggest you seek out the definition of the word “BIGOT” then re-read your post and see if you reach an intelligent conclusion about yourself - but I won’t hold much hope that you are capable of much self awareness. Even your “friend” is not allowed to fly her country flag for her own reason, without a nasty, judgmental label from you. What a piece of work you are.

This is a great explanation, thank you.

Just because a few of nasty people WANT to co-opt the St George's flag to represent their beliefs, we shouldn't let them. It's within all our powers to keep it as a unifying symbol of national pride and identity but we all need to show determination not to go along with their agenda.

People who insist it's an indicator of definite racism are actually going along with that very agenda.

Things haven't gone too far yet. I'm willing to admit that you couldn't use a swastika, an ancient Hindu sun symbol, any more without connotations. I've got an early edition of the Just So Stories by Kipling with little swastikas on the spine - all very innocent in those days. We need to take back the flag(s) now.

Someone summed it up on the first page - flags are useful in that they show where the rascist Reform voters are.

No.
See @KoiTetra 's post at 11:15.

Anyone who is unaware of the message it (currently) gives is either being wilfully ignorant, or is simply an idiot.

No they're not.

They perhaps don't leap to instant judgement as much as you, are less narrow-minded and have more life experience.

For the SG flag to become an acknowledged symbol of racist beliefs, we'd all have to sign up to that, an I'm not going to.

Fight your corner - don't let them have it.

No one is unaware. No one is pretending there is not a serious problem. Some people choose not to subscribe to the narrative that those who use it in nefarious ways are trying to make wholesale. Accepting it is a 'racist symbol' is contributing to the problem, not counteracting it. And assuming everyone who chooses to fly it is a bigot is ridiculous irony.

This ⬆️

I’d say part of that reclaiming should be calling out explicitly the right wing led flag-flying campaign we see everywhere at the moment.
Otherwise it’s ambiguous at best.

Are people not doing that? I am. That said I am fighting Reform on my own doorstep - and the delightful Heritage Party, have you heard of them?! - to make sure that my home nation doesn't elect a bunch of rag tag racist failed English nationalists next Thursday. So I don't have all the energy to do everything.

It’s our national flag just after St George’s Day. Not everyone has any agenda.

Be warned - if England do ok in the World Cup, they will go up again. 🙄

I wasn’t speaking to you personally!
Not sure why you think I am.

Rather to the many people on this thread and elsewhere who defend the flying of the flag without recognising its potency as a nationalistic symbol (which is being abused and co-opted).

It was St George’s day last week - patron saint of England, Malta and Georgia. That’s probably why. It’s also popular among football fans during international matches and used to fly from pretty much every Anglican parish church in the country at one point. It’s decidedly odd to think that supporting your country is racist.

Not underlying, and possibly not passive either.

I don't - I said 'are people' - meaning 'people'. I gave myself as an example because I can only give myself as an example!!

I don't think anyone on this thread has once said that the flag hasn't been coopted by racists, not once, unless I have missed something, show me where someone has denied this is the case?

Yes, in no other country does an element of the population choose to be ashamed of their national flag.

TBH nobody is more anti-English than some English people! And they often put it down to the legacy of empire, etc. but plenty of other countries had empires (France and Belgium are just two, and Germany did try very hard to have one not so very long ago…) but I never hear about those nationals being ashamed of their flags.

Put it this way - there were no flags on St George’s day last week in my area of London. They will go up for the football though. Would be interesting if someone had gone and done a survey of “flag areas’ and then compared to the upcoming local council elections. Reform have hijacked the flag somewhat in some areas. I bet there is actually a link if anyone had bothered to study it. Would have been an interesting dissertation for a politics student. I am now 95% confident Reform won’t get any councillors in our immediate area in.