Do people genuinely believe 'you should get her/him sectioned' as some sort of option?

[likelysuspect]

I see this sort of comment quite a lot on here and its cropped up in another thread.

'you should consider getting her sectioned'

And the OP is thanking the poster for the useful advice!!

The issue around sectioning has also come up a lot in the threads about the Southport killer and on threads about children with that sort of presentation

It astounds me that in this day and age people still think that you can 'get someone sectioned' as if you just phone someone and the black Maria comes and gets them.

There's a LOT of ignorance around how this works.

And most people don't have a clue as to how high the threshold is.

Its unbelievably difficult to get someone sectioned. They have to be really ill.

I know it amazes me.

I have gone through the Southport threads trying to educate people but people still keep repeating it as if its like going to get antibiotics.

Or not understanding what a treatable diagnosed MH condition is.

And if course you can't "get" someone sectioned. Not your decision, that's down to the panel for a S2/3, police officer for a 136 and all manner of complications for a 135.

I also think that many people have a sort of disconnect between, for want of a better word, more "standard " MH problems that you can come across in a typical environment, and SMI, which is a totally different kettle of fish.

I don't think people understand how difficult it is to get sectioned. I have known people desperate for help and repeated emergency calls and it has taken things getting very serious before they were sectioned.

I know a teen who last year was displaying very worrying behaviour along the same violence as the Southport attacker around wanting to hurt people, saying they want to get a gun and shoot the teacher or ex girlfriend and they have all agencies involved including CAMHS but the support is still limited.

I also think there needs to be more support in the gap that is between CBT and counselling and sectioning where many people sit.

Yes thats right.

Yup. I work in inpatient, there aren’t enough beds for half the patients who need to be in hospital.

I've not seen that as a comment on here to be honest.

Assume it's more of a flippant comment rather than them meaning at as a real suggestion.

For those asking - You can't have someone sectioned. That's down to an AMHP & doctor. If you are the nearest relative under the act (different legally to next of kin) you can apply to have someone discharged from section. This is more of an appeal rather than automatic discharge & will almost certainly challenged by the hospitals mental health act managers and consultant.

I don't know if any process whereby someone can request detention under the act. I may be wrong but do have a pretty good understanding of detention under the mental health act.

I have got someone sectioned twice and was tangentially involved in a third incident. Yes, they have to be a danger to themselves and others and it takes two doctors to sign off on it, so it’s not easy. But it does happen.

i know police cant take someone from their home for just screaming and making noise however unwell , hiwever many prople are distressed by the situation they need yo be displaying behaviour in the street. Often there isn’t a bed for them either

and if they do get a bed the services may not be up to scratch and not be any help

Yep, gotta love “care in the community “…
🙄

Ive had discussions with AMHPs who wont even do the assessment, despite the concerns raised by CAMHS because theres no bed, so no where to put the person if they were to need detainment

Can you tell us what you mean @RhiWrites ? I don't think you're an AMHP unless I misread your post?

Ive seen it on several threads over the years, its a common comment where someone is distressed about challenging behaviour rather than outright psychosis I find. The Southport threads were full of it 'he should have been sectioned' 'they missed an opportunity to section him' - he would never have met the threshold for sectioning people just dont get it.

And today its on another thread because of what could be (not sure) just unpleasant arsey behaviour. Not a diagnosable, treatable MH condition

Yeah, it's a bit like the thing with elderly parents - the idea you can just decide to "put them in a home".

So you were the psychiatrist or the AMHP?

Or a police officer phoning the duty MH team?

Trouble is that people have a woefully misguided perception of what being an inpatient will achieve.

No, there won't be therapy on tap.

No, you won't sit in a circle of plastic chairs saying meaningful and profound things to fellow patients

No, they won't spend the afternoons lying on a couch whilst their psychiatrist listens intently.

No, it's not fun and games like "Girl, Interrupted "

It's warehousing with medication tacked on

I think you perhaps need to add the 'very wealthy' epithet for context.

I have also seen AMHPs push back assessment requests because there are no beds. There are people on bed lists who absolutely should be in hospital but - no beds.

It’s crazy to me that people think you can pick up the phone and just get someone detained.

Exactly 28 days and some sedation and you're out mate. Some people move on to s3 obviously, Im being flippant.

Its essentially a longer period of place of safety in a way, for the patient and the public. Its called 'treatment' but its not

In any case, my point is that people seem to think its something that you as a parent, sibling, husband or whatever can just order or request. Please can I have her sectioned? Oh lovely, thanks, I'll pack a bag for her.

I think people see it on tv sometimes - a tearful relative signing a form while saying “I just want what’s best for you” and then the individual dragged off through some double doors screaming “how could you do this!”

I know someone who is mid-30s and has spent more of her adult life under section than out of it. But at no point did her parents, or any other friend/relative, “have her sectioned”.

It drives me nuts @likelysuspect

"Longer period of a place of safety" nails it.

In the gap there is secondary mental health care ie community mental health teams that look after people with SMI and then crisis/home treatment teams who look after people in crisis with the aim to keep them out of hospital and safe at home. Then if community care fails or people are a imminent* risk then it’s a wait for an inpatient bed informally (could take a couple of weeks) or sectioning (some wait in a&e for a week for an inpatient bed to become available).

*even if feeling suicidal, there has to be serious imminent intent and plan or a serious attempt having already taken place for a MH act assessment (the assessment triggered needed for sectioning) to take place.

Then you have people on a s2 (up to 28 days) who need longer inpatient care but when their s2 runs out, who don’t meet the threshold for a s3 assessment, so get pushed back to the community before they’re ready. Causing lots of re-bounding back into serious illness and another s2 stay.

In short, MH care in this country is on its knees and so so so many people are falling through gaps and struggling every single day.

Having said that, if you are one of these people, please don’t let this stop you reaching out for help. Get a friend or relative to advocate for you, or contact MIND who can help find an advocate.

I've been an active danger to myself on several occasions, never been sectioned. I attended drop in mental health sessions for a while, met people suffering awful psychosis, paranoia and hearing voices, they were not sectioned. So the idea that you can have someone sectioned for being a bitch or disagreeable is hilarious. But what isn't hilarious is people actually trying to do that to other people. If you are concerned that someone is a danger to themselves or others, you call the police, who will visit and assess the situation and begin the process if other help is needed.