Do people genuinely believe 'you should get her/him sectioned' as some sort of option?

[likelysuspect]

I see this sort of comment quite a lot on here and its cropped up in another thread.

'you should consider getting her sectioned'

And the OP is thanking the poster for the useful advice!!

The issue around sectioning has also come up a lot in the threads about the Southport killer and on threads about children with that sort of presentation

It astounds me that in this day and age people still think that you can 'get someone sectioned' as if you just phone someone and the black Maria comes and gets them.

That's kind of you, thank you. He does have a named LD nurse and gets the yearly checks with them but that is about it.

The threshold is high but I’ve found that you do need to be able to advocate for family members and push while emphasising the level of need. As soon as you stop, it’s much easier to ignore

I think in addition to general lack of knowledge of the MH system that's been mentioned, the other thing that kicks in when reading really scary and distressing news stories is this cognitive thing where people naturally want to apply 'solutions' that other people involved could have done to prevent the thing happening and/or find someone to blame - it's a way for the brain to protect itself from the fear and anxiety we naturally feel when we read about something as terrible the Southport attacks and other similar things. In the case of an attack by someone mentally ill 'the parents should have had him sectioned', in the case of a child abduction 'the mother shouldn't have taken her eyes off him/her', in the case of a rape 'she shouldn't have been walking alone at night'. It's more of an instinctive thing than something you logically think through, the more you think about it in fact the less it works, the protective effect is in kidding yourself that people (and by extension, you) are in control and can prevent similar terrible things happening to you and your loved ones by your actions rather than these tragedies just being the random chance of the universe that could happen to anyone. Goes right back to ancient times when people believed they could prevent themselves catching plague or their crops failing by wearing the right amulet or making offerings to the right local deity or whatever.

But while it may be a perfectly natural reaction I do agree it's not very helpful to post online, particularly if posted from a place of ignorance and misinformation, and doesn't really assist in identifying where individuals or systems really could or should have done things differently...

In addition to previous Ops answers, have a read up on Oliver McGowan mandatory training that is being rolled out.

I mean, someone does have to get the ball rolling and call a professional who has the power to section? When my brother started showing signs of psychosis my parents called a doctor and he arranged it all.

Do people genuinely think if someone is showing signs of being very mentally unwell that they should just be left to get on with it or even empowered in their thinking that the FBI is after them or something?

@Toetouchingtitties thank you. I follow Paula, his mum on facebook.

I'm conscious that I may have derailed the thread so i'm going to screen shot and read up on DSR and CETR as a start.

I'm confused: no one is suggesting that @Firefly1987 .

What people ARE doing is clarifying UK law as it stands in relation to the MHA.

Its entirely possible that their are many individuals who are capable of extreme violence. Rukabana wasnt just "one of thousands" he was on the radar for several years before the atrocity.
Just like the Nottingham stabber

Exactly. People are just splitting hairs about someone thinking they personally have the power to do it. If you see concerning out of character behaviour that might put someone or others in danger of course you would try and look into the process of sectioning and contact a professional. Who cares about the semantics really! The Nottingham killer's family have been criticised for not doing enough so can't really win.

It makes me laugh on Eastenders and Corrie when someone is just shipped off to a MH unit within minutes of showing any sign of mental illness. Help and support and inpatient beds in beautifully decorated MH units are available straightaway.

It's not semantics.

It's accurate use of the English language.

And in this particular context it is crucial to get it right. Failure to do this can lead laypeople to think they have a power that they don't. As well as the guilt they might have by erroneously thinking there is something that they could have done. Which there wasn't.

No-one, at any point suggested sitting back and watching someone become more unwell.

I actually think that was pretty irresponsible depiction of services.

True. I meant laugh in a bitter and ironic way

OK so what do you want to call it instead. I actually got put off trying to help after I made a post on here asking about getting someone sectioned a few years ago. I thought why bloody bother when everyone was focusing on the fact I thought I could personally section someone instead of actually providing advice on what to do. But I knew if the worst happened his family (ie me) would get blamed for not doing anything. Anyway they did get sectioned in the end-so I was right. It's just a miracle nothing too horrific happened in the meantime.

I was sectioned multiple times but recently was the most unwell I have ever been and nobody would even consider me needing to be sectioned. I was keeping knives by my bed, writing notes I was going to kill people, seeing things, hearing things etc.
It’s scary how hard it is to get people hospitalised now. In the end, in desperation, my husband asked me to start taking leftover antipsychotic meds and I’ve stabilised. But my mental health team have discharged me and nobody will prescribe the meds. So I’m looking into buying them abroad because I honestly think if I get unwell again, I could seriously harm somebody.

Pah posted too soon. The thing I wanted to say was that my DH and children asked multiple times for me to be hospitalised and were refused. They wouldn’t even do a mental health act assessment.

I haven't given thought about calling it anything specific other than urgently flagging concern about deteriorating mental health/ risk to self/risk to others to MH professional/emergency services.

I'm not sure it needs a specific "name".

I do think that language needs to be used accurately and with care and sensitivity.

@Youthinkyouareaniconoclast ok so you wouldn't mind someone saying "I think someone might need sectioning can a professional come and assess them?"

Sounds fine to me?

Nobody has said that people with mental health illness should be left to get on with it, or that the FBI is coming after them? Not on this thread, anyway.

It’s always important to raise awareness and clarify the right use of language around mental health illness.

I’m really pleased your parents called a dr who was able to arrange it all but your parents did not get your brother sectioned, they reached out for help for your brother to be assessed by a dr. That dr would have then decided to refer your brother to be assessed under the MH act to see if his condition needed treatment in hospital, what his risk was and if that treatment needed to take place under section. A MHA has two parts. Two drs assess (one has to be section 12 approved) and then an AMHP (usually a social worker) does their own assessment and makes a final decision. It’s a complicated process. Not a decision made by any or one dr or nurse.

My point here being that by saying your parents reached out to a dr who organised it all is portraying the process as being easy and simple, when it is far far far from that in reality. A person may think the person they are caring for “needs sectioning” but do they actually know what that means? It is never that simple and cannot just be done. And oftentimes it’s not the right thing for the person they are caring for (please see my pp for why).

No harm or upset for what you’ve said, I just am very passionate about making sure people know the reality of inpatient mental health care.

I’d take issue with that purely for what I’ve said above. How does anyone apart from trained mental health professionals know if someone meets the threshold or needs sectioning? It’s such a bad use of language.

It reminds me of the Peep Show episode, "if you try to section me, Jeremy, I'll have you sectioned so fast..."

Surely the focus should be on getting someone help ASAP rather than worrying about terminology?

You seem to be being pedantic about terminology. If I read a post saying ‘I got someone sectioned’ I wouldn’t take it literally. Is it really a point worth making?

Hopefully the outcome of the Nottingham inquiry will effect changes and it will in fact be easier to get someone sectioned (take that as literally as you choose) and harder to discharge without a clear, appropriate and tightly managed and monitored plan.

A lot of times the professionals don't listen to family. Just look at the case with the lady whose son who was schizophrenic went out and stabbed a dog walker to death. I believe she was or is suing the MH services because they left him in her care and she warned them he was obsessed with knives and she couldn't stop him going out. That tragedy could and should've been prevented.