why is it hard to like other people’s boy children

[Halfmunch]

I am a mother to girls, and have no brothers and I admit I don’t have much experience of raising or being around boys. The boys in my life I can find them overwhelming, frustrating and to be honest, self centred and lazy.

However, I am wondering if this is related to how people parent the boys, and a patriarchal society rather than the boys - as in it’s not their fault, they were not born this way. Is this something other parents have noticed, like Little Prince Syndrome?

My husband has a 12yo son and even after 5 years I struggle to bond with him. I have 2 x 9yo nephews and I also struggle with them. All 3 kids have different parents.

The boys are all overbearing in conversations - yell and talk over everyone else and already at their age ?!? mansplain and refuse to accept explanations or answers, challenging everything, ie. They all seem to ‘know better’ when a female answers a question and all have very singular topics they are only interested in, not interested in other people really. Step son is obsessed with football, so everything you do has to centre around that, and if it doesn’t, he’s completely disinterested in anything else and just mopes about.

I notice the boys all seem to opt out of clearing up, after a meal finished they will return to either talking about their chosen topic without noticing everyone else is clearing up, or go do their own activity, and have to be asked/reminded to do even minor tasks such as take a plate to the kitchen. I often watch them at family parties and while everyone else is pitching in, they have wandered off kicking a ball around quietly and when asked to help ‘oh I didn’t realise…’ however if it’s something slightly dangerous, they will barge in and get in your way even if you don’t want them to help they feel entitled to ‘help’ like SS demanding to be allowed to ‘light the BBQ’ unsupervised

They are nice boys, but I often read posts on here about people’s useless husbands, and think hmm well, there seems to be an awful lot of these males around… and it probably starts young!

My DH often feels frustrated as he’s very much an equal partner with a female, and believes in equality. He feel like he’s always nagging his son to try to get him to learn about life but many females seem to enable this! DH’s mum acts like SS is made of china, and my mum is the same with my nephew.

Is there a way we can tackle this as society?

TBF your title and OP is not stating this. To me your blind certainty on the topic of "boys" not the ones in your familial circles, is why society is in this position, i e. Self centred, automatic thought patterns that you don't question you just assume. Society as you demonstrate, is highly reactive and actually is failing to look at anything in a thoughtful way anymore, that's why we are ending up with these extreme politicians representing us. Try questioning your assumptions and the stuff you read to operate beyond your default position.

There are certainly mum blinkers with girls. It's a nonsense to say otherwise.

@Goldenbear sorry, what does this actually mean? I’m stupid and am ‘reading the wrong things?’ And you know better and read the right things - but just conveniently haven’t posted anything as an example? Just thought policing me, ok.

the more people tie themselves in knots angry at this idea, and lashing out, the more the point is being proven. We know this is an issue in society we just don’t want to admit it’s an issue in our families because it’s too close to home. It happens to other peoples sons. Less nice families. Girl mums are also to blame it seems but no one has posted a single reason why, apart from girls are becoming influencers and having plastic surgery bizarrely.

@Goldenbear yes there are mum blinkers but it doesn’t have the same dangerous effect on society. Having mum blinkers and raising a rude girl doesn’t cause other women to get assaulted and raped. Unless you believe that women provoke men into assaults

I agree with you on this. I think previous generations have definitely given their sons a pass when it comes to household chores and the mental load. A lot of men in my age group (late 30’s) although better than their fathers can still be lazy around the house. I won’t say useless as that implies a lack of ability. They can, just don’t.

I have all boys. I’m not their servant. Although very young, I still involve them in housework. They help tidy their toys. The toddler helps with dusting and sweeping. I’m normalising cleaning and doing housework as just something you do. I don’t want my sons to become another woman’s burden.

Your opening post was about boys you know at a barbecue not pulling their weight, you have extrapolated from that that all boys rape.

You've absolutely proven my point with this response - to think about things, to have some critical awareness so that we don't all get too lazy and just default to extremes 'is' the problem. This is stunting any Intellectual analysis on the issues you raise.

OP you're not wrong. It's hard to put a finger on why but it does feel harder to bond with boys especially in the loud and shouty phase where kids are no longer small and cute but still far away from being teenagers,

I feel there's a collective culture of not encouraging boys to develop individual personalities. It starts by the limited boring clothes in shops. It feels like every single boy is dressed in olive green, navy blue and beige with dinosaurs. They all end up playing football, Minecraft, Legos and screeching 6-7 with their friends. If you see a group of boys together it's really hard to tell them apart. It might be a precursor to lad culture where you can't tell any man in a stag do apart either. They are simply bonded by a love for drinking and breasts.

In contrast, girls are far more introspective, like to define their personalities very precisely and think about ways of expressing this to the outside. Eg the Hello Kitty universe has loads of characters and girls will fiercely have a favourite which reflects some part of the personality. There's the black and pink cute gothic Kuromi or the white and blue fluffy Cinnamoroll whose colour scheme also defies gender stereotypes. Girls also have very specific favourite colours, animals, hobbies and fashion style. When you speak to a girl, you get a very clear idea of who she is as a person and it's usually totally different to the girl next to her.

Speaking to boys of the same age you only get a fuzzy idea of who they are as individuals but it often feels like they're all talking about the same collective hobbies, trends or memes. Maybe for the same reason, grown men don't have the same sense of personal responsibility. They tend to see themselves are part of a collective and whatever their mates are doing are fine for them as well. If the lads are all taking Sunday off to go cycling for 6 hours despite kids being home then they will rage if they don't get the same privilege.

the more people tie themselves in knots angry at this idea, and lashing out, the more the point is being proven

That doesn’t make sense.

Someone not agreeing with, or getting angry about, something that’s been said doesn’t automatically prove the other person’s point true.
If you get annoyed about a flat-earther’s world view that doesn’t mean the world is flat?

I really don’t understand your logic here OP.

Just wondering if you have sons?
This seems such a strange viewpoint to me.
Boys are individuals, not clones.
My only guess is that you don’t know any boys well?

Most people are lashing out me with snarky cruel sarcastic insults, just plain simple rudeness and offensive (some of which has been removed). You can disagree with someone in a debate and likely gain respect for posting thoughtful information or links to information when making a statement, give some facts or stats. No one has done this.

I’ve just getting insulted over and over on every single page of this thread by people defending boys and completely negating and actually laughing at the concept that male offenders behaviour starts in childhood and is all around us, every day. It’s brutalist, toxic and pretty sad. It’s a topic no one wants to talk about as a childhood issue.

@Goldenbear you’ve given me no fresh points to consider, just feedback on what you perceive in your own mind to be completely incorrect, based on nothing. Let’s agree we don’t agree and move on. Seems to be a waste of everyone’s energy to engage in an invisible argument based on invisible statistics or you know, studies of how society works.

I’m not inventing the term patriarchy, I’ve not invented or imagined misogyny. I’ve not invented incels, red pill, the stats of domestic violence, the divorce rates, the rates of absent fathers, the number of fathers who don’t pay child support, reported numbers of assaults against women every day, the pay gap, male entitlement, male privilege etc etc

No one can answer me. If it’s not your sons, whose sons are doing these things? Do they come from another place?

I have 2 boys & 2 girls. I’ve always found my lads a bit easier tbh. Less moody and good craic. Ds21 is great and I love when his friends are all here. I honestly never felt what you’re explaining. Ds13 might have a couple of ‘interesting’ kids in his class but they are fine really. There is an age when they can be really annoying but that’s both sexes.

Yabu. I think it's more due to the fact that the male children in your life all come from broken homes and probably haven't had a chance to process the adverse childhood experiences they've had.

Two of them do not. That’s an assumption. 2 of them have mums and dads married and the dad is lazy and entitled. I said this about my sister and nephew. The other nephew is on my husbands side. They are spoilt and indulged.

I think any points about patriarchy etc would have landed better if they weren’t coming from someone who clearly just dislikes boys as per your thread title. It’s hard to separate out your very clear bias from any valid points you might have. Basically, you’re not a reliable reporter.

@Purpletable I said I would like them to grow into lovely young men and as part of their community that’s my role, however their parents are parenting them poorly and completely blind to it.

I also said it wasn’t their fault
that they were nice and sweet
the parents are perpetuating the roles that boys are different

there is no post of mine where I used hateful language towards boys

As I am pointing out toxic male behaviour, other posters have concluded I ‘hate men’

I have not wished ill on boys or want poor outcomes for them

I asked why society isn’t doing more about this. In my OP I asked this

My issue with this thread is that women/mums are being overall blamed for male violence, that they didn't bring them up well.

Male violence needs to be tackled by the men being violent and the supposedly good men who stand around condoning it.

This is a woman’s forum. I can go post the same thing on a dad’s forum but the people responding are female and it’s concerning that so many women have a view that this issue is not relevant to their boys because they have nice boys so it must be someone else’s boys.

Unfortunately this day and age mums are basically still doing a vast majority of the heavy lifting of raising the children because we have not yet evolved more generations of men who are doing 50% of the mental and physical load. I used MN as an example of how many thousands of posts here paint this exact picture

1 in 5 dads are absent. Most of the men in prison had absent fathers. The outcomes for boys are statistically worse in single parent families. So it is relevant to talk to the mums who are raising them, not to blame them but open their eyes to how we can all raise a generation of children who don’t follow in the same footsteps and continue the cycle

women are also condoning it.

there is no post of mine where I used hateful language towards boys

Hmm. These are the words you use to describe boys/men in your OP:
Dislike, overwhelming , frustrating, self-centered, lazy, know better, opt out, overbearing, yell, mansplain, challenging, mopes, entitled, nice, useless.

Whoever you think is at fault, it is exceptionally clear that your opinions are biased. Your clear dislike of boys and lack of neutral judgement have resulted in pushback on this thread and you really shouldn’t be surprised by that.

Fair point; but who is blaming just mothers? Obviously fathers, politicians, school, media etc are responsible. My point was that many on this forum just don't agree that there is a problem with how boys are brought up at all.

I take your point but I somewhat disagree with it.

Men are not violent because they are mainly raised by women. They are violent because there are not enough good men around to be role models. The men need to change not the women.

My ds 12 is really in to mangas. First I was disappointed because I would have preferred for him to read "real" books. But now I'm thrilled because the manga community is very helpful in not stereotyping gender. He has a mixt group of friends (both sex) and they tend to not only talk about mangas but also have many deep conversations about life. My sensitive boy has found his people. Defintely no misogyny in the group- they even talk about unfair expectations on boys vs girls.

@EarthlyNightshade yes but women cannot force a man to stay with them, be a parent or act a certain way, so if you are a woman raising boys in this environment, you also have input into how they are raised. It’s not just happening to you or your children at the hands of men in isolation it’s our whole community

The description should have been toxic masculinity? I am describing behaviours I’ve witnessed. The definition of toxic masculinity is overt aggression and entitlement. Thats what I’m seeing in pre teens.

Children are the product of their environment. This doesn’t need to be the type of person they develop into as an adult, when it’s a childhood behaviour that can be taught to them differently. They don’t know why they are doing this, or that it’s wrong as no one has told them, or they are modelling poor behaviours.

If it’s not clear, these are behaviours of boys I’ve witnessed that I clearly believe their parents are responsible for stopping, but society doesn’t want to believe it’s a problem. You can describe behaviours without needing to hate anyone. Descriptors are not inherently hateful