to think some women should not be punishing their DM/MILs regarding childcare?

[cupofcup]

I keep seeing posts where women say if their DM/MIL won’t do childcare for them now, then they won’t be there for her when she’s older.

Not even said in anger, more like a matter-of-fact stance. You didn’t help me, so I won’t help you.

Doing regular childcare when you’re older and maybe tired, working, or not in great health isn’t always doable. It’s not always a case of just not wanting to.

Relationships aren’t contracts. You don’t bank hours of babysitting and cash them in later for elderly care.

I can understand feeling less close to a parent who isn’t around or doesn’t make an effort. That’s just human. But deciding years in advance that you won’t look after them as a punishment feels harsh.

As usual, DF/FILs are not threatened in this way.

I am not saying all women do this or that there are not happy childcare arrangements.

It is possible to be offended on behalf of others if one is not personally affected, you know.
I care strongly about the provision of clean water in developing countries. I have water on tap.

I don't think it's as binary as that. There may be a situation where grandparents don't help with childcare because they are too old, live too far away, etc, but there is a good relationship with their grown up children, and therefore the grown up children may help with elderly care when the time comes.
Then there are situations where grandparents could help but refuse to do so, even in emergencies. Of course that is going to negatively impact the relationship.
Having said that, I don't think it's fair for elderly parents to expect their grown up children to care for them - the grown up children may be in the prime of their lives when their parents need care, and I don't think it's fair to expect their children to give up their lives to provide care.
My children are very young at the moment and I have already decided that I will check myself into a nursing home when the time comes, and make it very clear before then that I do not want them to take care of me. It would be nice to have some visitors though!

I used to help my grandma because it was the right thing to do. Not related to any childcare.

So why is it “the right thing to do” to help your grandma, but not “the right thing to do” to help your kids when they need help with their children?

I think just say no.

So many women vs women threads on this topic. It’s always DDs and DILs and mothers and MILs. Bring the men into these conversations you’re having in real life.

Maybe it comes down to modelled behaviour - if people only see their mother as the default parent that who they will default to for taking care of children. Are all these threads based on regret on an acceptance that men didn’t pull their weight when their children were small?

fwiw I had lots of help with my kids that my mum offered. I didn’t ask.

I offer all the time to help them (and do so). It’s not as black and white as me doing it because they helped me. But it definitely brought us closer and yes I do feel I need to pay them back for their kindness. My OH was away for days or weeks on end. I don’t think I would have been able to keep a job and survive otherwise

I would be very surprised if you get an answer to that.

I agree that men do need to be brought into these conversations rather than women pressurising each other into doing childcare and making veiled threats.

There is a general acceptance that some men maybe did not pull their weight when their children were young and this seems to get them off the hook again when it comes to grandchildren.

Helping family is a good thing, but it shouldn’t be the case that you will only get help if you do childcare.

Some people are intimating that if usually the DM/MIL does not help with childcare then they will not get support when they are older. This is rarely said to men.

We were older parents. I cared for my parents before they died ( when I was quite young). My parents in law were never in a position to provide childcare, because of their own ill health. We did what we could to support them, rather. It isn’t a transaction.

I am increasingly believing my initial 'joke' that these posts are a fairly clever way of trying to detail Mumsnet. Hard to identify as definitely fake, to a greater extent on topic for our forum, hard to justify deleting, but somehow insidiously providing a distraction and irritation. If I were planning to be a real pain in the ass on a site, this wouldn't be a horrible idea.

Apologies to OP if it's genuine, but just a thought crossing my mind this last month.

Totally agree @SardinesOnButteredToast .
Lots of similar threads e.g. anti dogs, this grandmother stuff
OP who twists and turns so often they barely seem to know what point they're arguing.
OP who is clearly not seeking resolution, but antagonistic debate.
First time OPs/name changers coming up with repeated identical threads.
OP aggressive and name calling.

It's so frequent now you can spot the threads before you open them.

I would never expect care from my children. Ever. I am putting in contingencies so they won't ever have to. My parents have said the same to me - I will still care for them if I need to.

They have loved and supported me and my children, going above and beyond. I will do the same for my children with nothing expected in return. I love my parents and I love my children. This is what families do.

If grandparents choose not to prioritise their family and want to enjoy their retirement it is entirely their right to do so. However, why then would their children not prioritise their own retirement (and their own grandchildren potentially) rather than caring for parents who could but choose not to help - which is entirely their choice.

People keep saying this is what families do, but most care is done by women not men.

Completely agree in most cases. I am a single parent and my ex will barely care for his children, let alone any grandchildren or his parents when the time comes. The patriarchy is alive and well.

My dad is unable to do childcare anymore due to a terminal prognosis but has been actively involved in his grandchildrens life, including childcare until his diagnosis.

It's relational not transactional.

A few years ago our 18mo was diagnosed with a form of cancer and spent months in hospital (he's ok now). Two sets of grandparents (both reasonably local, both retired).

1. swung immediately into action, looked after the 3yo for months, fed the cat, held the fort, supported us financially when we couldn't work for months and were an absolute rock to us in a nightmare situation.
2. didn't even bother visiting in hospital for the 2 months he was in. Didn't even offer to take the older child out for an hour to give the other grandparents a break. Got stressed at us when we didn't update them fast enough.

Grandparents 1, help us frequently with childcare (not on a schedule any more). They come round for dinner, we go to theirs. They take our kids to the park. We fix their toilet, put up a shelf, fix their computer. If and when they need care, we'll be there for them absolutely. Not in a transactional way, but because every instinct in me drives to care for them.

Grandparents 2, despite living less than an hour away, we see a few times a year, usually after us chasing them for dates. They've never babysat, never pushed the kids on a swing. They don't know them. They don't ask about our son's health, when we send them messages updating them on stuff from the hospital, they don't even respond. We keep them in the loop because we 'should' and the relationship is driven by obligation more than instinct.

I would walk over hot coals to help grandparents 1. But not grandparents 2. Not because they didn't provide 'childcare' but because my instinct to care then has been eroded by their lack of care for us.

Where’s the men in this?!

Good points here.

I think some of the people who keep bringing up the same thread - or quite clearly the same person/people - may not get help because they don’t come across as nice people. To keep dragging all this over the coals constantly they must really dislike their families.

fair enough you don’t want to do scheduled childcare. Just don’t then. But don’t keep banging on about it.

Exactly. If they are content with a relationship of seeing us every 3 month, choose not to take an active interest in their lives, and show no concern when the going gets tough, then that's the relationship style they've chosen to have with us.

And that's what they'll get back from us, not because we are punishing them, but because we'll continue to interact with them with the same passion (or not) that they have with us.

Saying that, when one of GP 2 became ill 2 years ago, we did go and see them in hospital reasonably frequently, despite them not even coming once for their grandson. Because we love them. But they show little desire for a close, relationship.

Relationships need nurture.

Grandad was dead and my two uncles (her sons) did most of the care.