Using mobile phone when driving

[40andnotsofabulous]

Hoping I can get some advice. I received letter this morning asking me to confirm if I was driver earlier this week on set road at set time as I had apparently been using my mobile phone.

It was definitely me driving and I was on phone at that time- checked records and I was on a works teams call. However, my phone set up is blue tooth to come through car, and as it was a phone call I can’t see why I would have been touching my phone at all (it sits in the central bit of car). I don’t play with phone in car, but even still I have double-checked messages etc and as I expected there is nothing sent. Am a bit confused- unless I literally moved the phone, but even the am not sure why I would.

The letter doesn’t give other details or say what the evidence is. I don’t want to dispute if it’s true, but I also don’t want to say I am guilty without checking it.

has anyone been in this situation? Do they send the photo or evidence after you confirm you are driver?

Posting in AIBU for traffic. Fully appreciate if using phone while driving then it is unreaonable behaviour and so makes sense to get the fine, but this is not what I am disputing! Thanks in advance.

Opinion, or conclusion No need to retract - I'll imply it.

https://www.trl.co.uk/publications/trl54

Research has shown that phone conversations while driving impair performance. It is difficult to quantify the risk of this impairment because the reference is usually made to normal driving without using a phone. 'Worse than normal driving' does not necessarily mean dangerous. There is a need to benchmark driving performance while using a mobile phone to a clearly dangerous level of performance. Driving with a blood alcohol level over the legal limit is an established danger. This study was designed to quantify the impairment from hands-free and hand-held phone conversations in relation to the decline in driving performance caused by alcohol impairment. The TRL Driving Simulator was used to provide a realistic driving task in a safe and controlled environment. Twenty healthy experienced drivers were tested in a balanced order on two separate occasions. The drivers were aged 21 to 45 years (mean = 32, SD = 7.8) and were split evenly by gender. Before starting the test drive, participants consumed a drink, which either contained alcohol or a similar looking and tasting placebo drink. The quantity of alcohol was determined from the participant's age and body mass using the adjusted Widmark Formula (the UK legal alcohol limit 80mg / 100ml). The test drive had four conditions: (1) motorway with moderate traffic, (2) car following, (3) curving road, and (4) dual carriageway with traffic lights. During each condition the drivers answered a standard set of questions and conversed with the experimenter over a mobile phone. The independent variables in this repeated measures study were normal driving, alcohol impaired driving, and driving while talking on hands-free or hand-held phone. Results showed a clear trend for significantly poorer driving performance (speed control and response time) when using a hand-held phone in comparison to the other conditions. The best performance was for normal driving without phone conversations. Hands-free was better than hand-held. Driving performance under the influence of alcohol was significantly worse than normal driving, yet better than driving while using a phone. Drivers also reported that it was easier to drive drunk than to drive while using a phone. It is concluded that driving behaviour is impaired more during a phone conversation than by having a blood alcohol level at the UK legal limit (80mg / 100ml). (A)

you clearly don't live in Ireland.

I'd say on my morning commute or school run a good 25% of people are also chatting (handfree bluetooth)

I read the first line only “it’s difficult to quantify”, so they don’t know?

Point proven!

You can decline to get into a car for whatever reason, I’ll continue to continue staying within the law.

If it was just me that thought it, you might have a point.

Hands-FREE is dangerous say police and road safety partners

Warwickshire Road Safety Partnership is asking the public to think about whether they really need to use a hands-free mobile phone whilst driving because national research has found that hands-free phone use is just as distracting and dangerous as handheld phone use whilst driving.

Research by The Open University and Roads Policing Academic Network, funded by the Road Safety Trust, has found that a driver using a handheld or a hands-free phone is four times more likely to be involved in a collision than an undistracted driver, can look AT hazards but fail to actually SEE them, can take up to a second longer to react to hazards, and is far less likely to notice hazards even if they happen right in front of them.

https://www.warwickshire.police.uk/news/warwickshire/news/2024/february/handsfree-is-dangerous-say-police-and-road-safety-partners/

It’s dangerous?

Lots of things are “dangerous” crossing a road, running down stairs.

Its about risk and clearly it’s not deemed a large enough risk to ban it.

So, it’s legal and allowed .

You seemed to not answer my question? About getting in a car with a drunk driver, or someone who won’t take your request to not use hands free? Would you check?

Would me answering your question make using a phone while driving any less dangerous?

I remember when it was perfectly legal for nobody to wear seat belts in cars. Once the risks were fully appreciated, that changed.

To answer your question, no, I don’t ask people if they are over the drink drive limit when before getting into their car and I don’t ask people if they are going to make or receive phone calls either.

Having said that, I can’t remember the last time I was in a car where the driver made or received a phone call.

I didn’t ask if you ask people if they’re over the DD limit? That presumably would be obvious! I would assume you’d also call the police.

Im assessing if your “it’s as dangerous” as DD is a real belief, I’ll assume not as you appear to get into cars without checking.

Answers my original question. It’s not deemed as dangerous as DD, unless of course you’re saying you would get into a car accident the a DD or not report them.

I know some employers that prohibit handsfree usage, followinf RoSPA advice

https://www.rospa.com/siteassets/pages/road-safety/road-safety-resources/free-road-safety-information/employers/work-mobile-phones.pdf

I remember when it was perfectly legal for nobody to wear seat belts in cars. Once the risks were fully appreciated, that changed

They also used to walk in front of cars with red flags! But speeds and ability changed and safety measures changed. Which is why they now have hands free sets in cars to enable calls.

Yes, company choice, likely led by employees who believe that it’s as dangerous as DD and therefore won’t do
it anyway.

In my direct experience, it was compliance ...

"If one of our employees were to have an accident whilst using a phone for company business, could the company be found liable for any damages, despite the usage complying with the law ?"

"Yes"

"When driving on company business, employees are not required or expected to conduct any conversations. It is suggested that the employee arranges for incoming calls to be diverted, and to refrain from making outgoing calls"

was pretty much how it went. This was 2008 ...

That’s their view? It’s not law!

how compliance department has lots of “views”

Lots more modern hands free sets since 2008, making taking calls easier and safer…

Thats 18 years ago!!

Oh quite. each suited to a companies appetite for risk.

I mean it's also quite legal to charge e-scooters at work. But some insurers may not be quite as relaxed as some.

Exactly! Risk assessment! It’s not as risky as a DD

The risk is not in the equipment. It's in the action of talking. Presumably because for some people it uses the brain

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmtrans/2329/232910.htm

That is bullshit! It might negatively impact some people but not everyone. I’m far more alert and find talking to someone makes me at least as good if not a better driver when on the phone.

I did a speed awareness course last week and one thing the instructor mentioned was that anything beyond "I'm driving, can I call you back?" is legally considered as usuing a mobile phone whilst driving, whether hands free or not. Your driving standard falls and the person you're talking to cannot see the road or any potential hazards that they can also help manage by pointing out while you're talking, if it seems you haven't noticed them. Or you might pause your conversation while you navigate a tricky junction, you wouldn't on hands free.

I read about someone who got stopped for drinking a bottle of water whilst driving.

I accept some people find tasks easier than others, but that doesn’t mean people can make sweeping generalisations!

Some are better drivers than others!

Let's put this into perspective, answering a call uses no more attention than turning on headlights or wipers, turning on aircon etc. Talking on a phone is no different to chatting to a passenger, actually probably safer as no eye contact is required.

Or dealing with radio changing channels or volume :-)

But generally it's a good idea for the law to address the lower end of the scale,

We can't all be rocket scientists. Or so I'm told.

Is it?

I’m not sure that’s the case?

Anyway, I must go, got some phone calls to make in my way to work!

It is completely different to talking to a passenger. Or indeed, posting on MN.

https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/mobile-phone-use