to think a lot of men don’t actually want children as much as they say they do?

[olaay]

I don’t mean all men, before anyone jumps on that. But it does feel like quite a few are very into the idea of kids rather than the reality.

They’ll talk about wanting a family, being a dad, all of that. On paper they’re completely on board. But when it comes down to what having children actually involves, it often feels like the woman is the one really carrying it, not just physically but in every other way too.

You see it in how the conversations go. Women thinking it through properly, what it means for their body, their job, their day to day life. Men sort of agreeing, going along with it, but not always engaging with the full picture in the same way.

Then once the baby arrives, it turns into this dynamic where he “helps” rather than just being an equal parent. Like it’s still ultimately her responsibility and he steps in when needed.

It just makes me wonder how many men genuinely want children in a proper, day to day, all in way, and how many just like the idea of it without really thinking about what it looks like long term.

Oh I agree - I'm just saying that they say they parent equally and genuinely believe it but they don't really

I have noticed this. Some women insist their partners do everything 50:50. On closer examination, the woman is still doing a lot of the organising.

I remember how it was when I was growing up in the 1950's. There were very few women who had a job outside the home. Therefore mothers were with the kids more than the fathers.My father pitched in when he could but my mother was the one who organized everyday needs for us. I think this may be why fathers slipped into a secondary role which was the norm for years. I see a big change with young fathers nowadays. There are many more hands on fathers and even stay at home dads which was unheard of in the past. Hopefully things will continue like this.

Yeah, this was my DH. When we met he wanted 'two or three kids'. We married, had one, he then realised the reality and said he wanted to stop at one, despite the fact that I was the one doing 99% of the childcare. He took 2 days paternity leave and then went back to his FT job which involved long days and regular OS travel. Fortunately, he was very well paid and so I was able to be a SAHM for a number of years and on that basis he agreed to have DC2, because basically he wasn't doing any of the childcare, it was all on me and I wanted a second DC.

Now that they're teens he's very good with them and helps them study and work out at the gym, but when they were small he was fucking useless. If I ever went away overnight I had to have my DM come and take over because he simply couldn't do it and I didn't trust him to take good care of them. It's a bloody good thing I'm healthy and capable and was prepared to do it all myself.

This ‘biology is destiny’ nonsense is such internalised misogyny. Giving men excuses for their shit parenting.

I scored well on here because my husband is a teacher and rarely warm and sweet individuals and genuinely caring man, so kids for him have been part of his life and job before our child came ....cannot imagine any other way or a cold and distant father

My ex-DP desperately wanted children, more than me. He soon realised that he couldn't actually cope with children or family life, hence the ex. You can't know how children will change your life of you don't have them - but a lot of women have no choice. Every decision or choice I make is for the children, my ex, not so much.

Some of my friends have wonderful husbands who are hands on and supposedly equal partners and even then a lot of the mental load still falls on their wives.

I think it's biological and societal, as women as soon as we are pregnant our lives change and for men it's a huge whack on the head when they are born and realise that they are a parent now - some take to it like a duck to water and others realise it isn't for them. Unfortunately you can't take a decision back and some become backseat or even deadbeat parents.

I’ve noticed teachers often make good fathers.

That’s not true. A lot of single mothers left their relationships. In fact most.

She posted a link to data.

I agree OP. I also think men find it very easy to detatch and that they really only 'love' their kids if they are with the mother. Once the relationship with the mother ends, they tend to walk away and not look back.

What @lucyloo25 said.
I'm a woman and the idea of having children and sacrificing every part of my being seemed alien to me since I was a kid myself.
I found a husband who was thrilled with this stance, without exaggeration.
After 22 years, we are still going strong and, speaking for myself, I'm sure being child free plays a massive part in that.

Haven’t RTFT, but only two men I know actively wanted kids and said so.

Most fathers I know grudgingly consented to having kids under duress.

A former colleague of mine used to make awful ‘jokes’ in front of his kids about how he only agreed to have them to appease his wife, and he should have secretly had a vasectomy and let her believe she was infertile. They all hated and resented each other desperately.

I think a lot of women could do with letting go of the magical thinking that having a baby will ‘be the making’ of a reluctant partner, and men who have no interest in fatherhood should have the courage of their convictions even if it means the end of their relationship (/free domestic labour / access to regular sex).

As I posted earlier, not something which happens in our family or close friends.
I feel so sorry for women and more for their children when the father doesn’t know basic things like their food likes and dislikes, who their best friend is at school, what position they play in their football team, what their latest school project is or the book they are reading each night at home.

There is a world bigger than your family and friends.

My family is what I care about - others care about their own and obviously do things differently

Of course but it is basic to know that people do things differently. Just because my family and friends do things one way, does not mean I am not aware things could be different elsewhere.

Very timely seeing this thread. I only know men who still carry around the idea that raising the family, looking after the children is the woman's job, whether she is working or not, often unsaid and undisussed.

And when they left they had the option of leaving their children behind. It's not the option that the majority of mothers take, but it's an option that's nevertheless available to them.

My husband had kids because I said so, if I'd waited till he was "HELL YEAH!" I'd still be childless.

When they came he was smitten, made him love me even more tbh.

Spent far more time than me doing fun stuff, swimming, park, teaching them to ride a bike, he was there, front and centre.

He was always good cop, I had to be bad cop.

What a dad! Gloried in every minute of being a father, still does.

He has in fact suffered more from empty nest syndrome than me now they are in their 20s.

But I can categorically tell you it was in no way even. Not even close.

There are so many things I'd need a day but I can tell you one that springs to mind - no Drs appointments.

Even dads that are "hands on" ain't doing what mum is doing.

The mental load is real.