to think a lot of men don’t actually want children as much as they say they do?

[olaay]

I don’t mean all men, before anyone jumps on that. But it does feel like quite a few are very into the idea of kids rather than the reality.

They’ll talk about wanting a family, being a dad, all of that. On paper they’re completely on board. But when it comes down to what having children actually involves, it often feels like the woman is the one really carrying it, not just physically but in every other way too.

You see it in how the conversations go. Women thinking it through properly, what it means for their body, their job, their day to day life. Men sort of agreeing, going along with it, but not always engaging with the full picture in the same way.

Then once the baby arrives, it turns into this dynamic where he “helps” rather than just being an equal parent. Like it’s still ultimately her responsibility and he steps in when needed.

It just makes me wonder how many men genuinely want children in a proper, day to day, all in way, and how many just like the idea of it without really thinking about what it looks like long term.

Sounds like he has had DC to please his new partner.

I've never come across a single instance in my life where parenting is truly shared equally. Even in custody arrangements that are ostensibly 50/50 - it's in time only.

Someone said upthread that women don’t get the luxury of resigning from parenthood when it gets hard and I agree with that.

My experience is the opposite, he wanted it, I had to be convinced to go along with it. We now have a 7 and a 4 year old and I still have my career, he went freelance from his to be the main caregiver for the school run etc. We did shared parental leave. People don’t understand it and feel he should get a ‘proper job’. He still earns a decent wage freelance and if that was a woman on a part time wage no one would bat an eyelid.

Everyone i know parents equally and chores equally but it probably does depend on where you live

Whoever decides to leave first has the option of resigning from parenthood.

It sometimes seems equal but it is not always.

They moan about their husbands plenty but never about that.

It was for us - we followed the example set by my parents and DH’s. We wanted our family life to operate as joint and equal parenting. Our DC’s and both careers were important to both of us and we couldn’t do it without supporting each other

No, i would say when we were discussing having kids, DH wanted them, i wasn’t so sure and was worried, based on the experience of my friends who had young kids. Especially knowing we would have no support around. DH thought we’d be fine, but had nothing to go on at all, none of his friends had kids at that point. I took a lot of convincing. And tbh it’s been pretty shit so far.

If my husband hadn't wanted kids I wouldn't have married him, not least because he expected me to be mum to his 2 sons

Did he have them because he really wanted them or because he needed you to be a mum to his two sons and more kids was the price he had to pay?

It was a statistical fact over austerity that women were more affected than men and it was women who gave up their jobs to look after the kids. Always women are the caregivers and support species. We are actually going backwards in terms of rights ime. In the 90s men were going to step up and be more family oriented. My husband was going to be one of those, he was always telling me ‘when we drop sprogs we’ll do this or we’ll do that’. I of course was thinking that women do not ‘drop sprogs’, around the world we risk death giving birth and / or risk significant health issues. Just not on his radar at all.

In the event of course he took all the social kudos and his career was boosted if anything, and I made all the sacrifices. That’s what women do after all and what it turned out he expected women to do, for all the lies about being feminist and look how he supports women at his workplace. Until they have kids and they find themselves in the same place regardless.

Listen and learn, young women, and think if some good questions to ask. We all think it will be different. We all think we really do have equality. We are all wrong.

Think this applies both ways, no one knows what's coming. but i think men get carried away with the romance of doing the best bits.

I definitely should have been clearer. I meant a lot of women on here earn less than their husbands and they think they need to give up their jobs due to childcare costs (when it should really be split evenly and not seen as coming out of the women’s salary). Then they stay at home and are the defunct childcare. Whether they enjoy it or not, but women are apparently meant to.

The separate point was it’s socially unacceptable for women to fuck it all off. If men decide to leave their families it barely raises an eyebrow. The point I badly made, was that if it the roles were reversed, then I think women would fuck it all off!

Luckily my husband and I both earn the same, have equal childcare responsibilities and genuinely respect and love each other!

Same. I’m not sure why this is seen to be weird? Maybe it’s different social circles, but I don’t know any close friends who don’t have equal relationships in terms of childcare/housework/mental load.

Women are still doing most of the unpaid labour:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/articles/womenshouldertheresponsibilityofunpaidwork/2016-11-10

On average men do 16 hours a week of such unpaid work, which includes adult care and child care, laundry and cleaning, to the 26 hours of unpaid work done by women a week.

The inequality seems common on Mn but not something I see in our live or those of family and close friends

This. Women are the default always. My personal experience is that my ex husband was a great, involved father - to the point that when he went to toddler groups or parties, other parents commented on him being there!

I can remember him getting really pissed off when someone commented it was great he was ‘babysitting’ his son. He replied “no I’m parenting my son…”

We had long and in-depth discussions before we had children. Covered everything possible including how would we parent and considering the damage done to us by our respective parents.

But yeah I agree that men have no idea - I know men who have gone along with it to ‘keep the woman hapoy’ and then absolutely freaked when the reality of pregnancy and childbirth happens. Let alone parenthood…!

You might not see it in your family and friends but it is still common in society.

This generation then needs to ensure that the inequality isn’t replicated in this and future generations. Although from reading many Mn posts the women have to shoulder a large proportion of the blame.

yes - I have friends who on the surface of it look to parent equally. He cooks, cleans and shops, takes their daughter to after school activities as much as my friend does however

• he doesn't know who her dentist is
• he doesn't know what size shoes she takes
• he doesn't know her friends when they go away he packs for himself, she packs for herself and they're daughter
• She always organises her birthday/sleep overs/christmas presents
• she knows what books she's reading at school and who her teachers are

basically in addition to all the 'equal parenting' she's just over the detail in a way that he isn't

Well I think women don't want children as much as they THOUGHT they did

Women’s jobs?

I’d be questioning why does she pack for their daughter - ask her DH to? Why don’t they organise Christmas and birthday presents together or do they each buy their own presents? Why has she assumed responsibility for medical appointments, do they not both do stories and know what she likes reading.