Don't like Farage but..

[TheBlueKoala]

I do agree with him that foreign nationals shouldn't be able to claim benefits and to scrap PIP for mild mental health issues. And that the money saved should go into mental health care so that everyone with mild mental health problems can access NHS care rapidly.

I have more issue with rich MPs claiming thousands of pounds of taxpayers cash to heat their stables than I do with people who claim disability benefits

I remember campaigning for a party and the guy I was paired with went with an MP for a three course lunch at Westminster. 6 pounds. He said he was embarrassed

I went to school with a girl who was an MEP for some time and she was bragging about how much money she made just for signing in and out - if nothing much was going on

Farage isn't even present in his constituency. He doesn't give a fuck - but folk on Pip

My current MP is so lazy she doesn't have an office in our town and the last time she was an MP she claimed 250k in expenses in a year

It's always the people at the bottom as it were who get the most criticism

Well Id quite like to hear from @TheBlueKoala and her chums why it's ok to require someone pays national insurance for 45 years then deny them a pension because they don't have a UK passport.

You won't get an answer, because that would show them up for what they are.

You won't get an answer. This is just rage bait as per

I repeat.

Why waste time examining the output of the man who gave us Brexit for accuracy or truth ?

It's still a question too.

Technically Cameron gave us Brexit

I wasn't talking about tax contributors obviously but people who come in to the country to live off benefits. Most people I know, foreign nationals included, are against people moving to a country to claim benefits and never work.

Are there many who never work? I know and have known quite a few people who have come here for all sorts of reasons, including asylum seekers, and they all go to work eventually. Many work damn hard to provide a better life for their children; they all needed some help when they first came here, ie a roof over their heads and things to eat, wear, etc, possibly medical treatment, but it wasn't long term aid. Some were put in b&bs, had to go out after breakfast until tea time, walked about all day in all weathers.

Asylum is a place of safety, at least that is the theory.

There are benefit scroungers, we know that, but they come in all forms.

Technically he didn’t “give us” Brexit. Practically we were never given a true brexit that most people envisioned they were voting for and what meagre Brexit we got has been slowly dismantled. NF was one of a number of people who campaigned for Brexit and not necessarily the most powerful or well known like Boris Johnston, Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings together with millions of ordinary people. He had nothing to do with its implementation and little power to influence it and expressed that he opposed much of the way it was implemented.
As far as the NHS is concerned he and many members of Reform have stated on many occasions that it will continue to be free at point of use but they will endeavour to find efficiencies etc. Personally I think they should have been bolder as for most people any thought of accessing the free NHS is a distant memory and involves long waits in pain and discomfort despite the eye watering sums it receives.

Sorry but what is the "true Brexit" that people voted for?

Obviously it was different for many people and what it would involve was explained in many different ways by the many campaigning groups which has been its biggest problem. I don’t know what was in every single voters mind but subsequent polls and social media suggest that the majority believed they were voting for strong borders, low immigration from anywhere in the world, no EU or other external influence on any of our laws, no payments to EU bodies and a general return of absolute sovereignty to the UK. Sadly little of this was delivered by May or Johnston and some suggest that the exact opposite was delivered and what little benefits we got are being slowly dissolved by the present government .

I think you’ll find ‘Conservative’, ‘Reform’ and ‘respected’ don’t ever go together in the same sentence.

Answer a question with a question, eh? Ever thought about becoming a politician?

That's the most stupid thing I've ever heard of. Remember the year where they stopped seasonal agricultural workers entering the UK and the crops rotted in the fields? Is that really the Brexit we wanted? Or did the Brexiteers want other true English men to go pick potatoes (but not them)?

And as for no EU or other influence on our laws, how was that ever going to work? Was the plan never to trade with the outside world or go abroad? Leave Nato? They really supported the loss of science and research from the UK (well yeah. that I can believe)? Stupid fucks.

Is the language and insults necessary? I am engaging in good faith and setting out my views and opinions using neutral language and while I don’t expect or demand you agree with me is it too much to ask for a tiny bit of civility. It is sad that most debates in this country on political or societal issues aren’t conducted with more civility.

Apologies @BeAmberZebra but much of what you are positing (absolutely in good faith) is so clearly lacking in reality it's hard to believe people thought it was possible without destroying the country.

We clearly just need to differ on this one and part on good terms. I don’t think I’ll ever persuade you and I am doubtful that you will persuade me. Some of your points are of course valid especially round agriculture (which was a very poor decision by BJ), but overall they don’t persuade me or the 30% of people who intend to vote Reform that more hardline policies on Brexit will not be beneficial.

You don't know people voted for Brexit or what they expected, though i do think lower immigration would have been high on the agenda.

On rules, EU is still a large export market, we cannot export into this, unless we follow their rules and regs, thats a simple fact of life.
Environment protections and product ingredients, UK cannot just do as it likes on all of these either.

Payments into EU bodies? such as Horizon, a program that benefits the UK's life sciences.
I wont mention Erasmus, as i suspect you re totally against giving UK youth any advantages - now been widened out to inc lower level educational programs.

The EU divorce bill is around £42 billion and then there was all the custom controls we built that then weren't needed....

What is "absolute Sovereignty?" we don't have that with the UN, with NATO, with International courts...

Vast majority of UK electorate should not be given votes on complex subjects, thats why we vote for an MP/Govt to make these decisions on our behalf, if you think we should be, where does it stop?

Govt would be even worse than it is already.

There’s another thread asking why posters don’t explain why, this is why.

Brexit was deliberately left undefined.
All the better to let voters imaginations run away with them.

And muddy any assessment of likely damage to the UK’s economy.

Offering a vote to knock 8% off GDP & damage investment etc might have been less easy to sell.

You must know that foreign nationals can't just claim benefits on arrival?

Absolutely not the case when I last had medical treatment for a significant injury. I was seen within 45 minutes in minor injuries when I broke my leg. The problem with saying "most people" is that that often is a personal opinion presented as fact. My mum had an aggressive cancer ten years ago and the treatment she got was exceptional - at every stage. The NHS saved her life

The language used is mild when you look at the mess Brexiteers have left us in.

Yes. Because every person who uses a food bank has a mum who has Botox and of course they are "off on holiday" the next week with their Universal credit money too paid for by the taxpayer.

Do they have a big TV too and eat cheesy chips on the regular as well and crack open cans of Stella for breakfast before Chardonnay - Mercedes and Tragedeigh rock up to school in a taxi paid for by the taxpayer

For every tale of people on benefits having Botox and jetting off on holiday there are many more who genuinely struggle.

People should be allowed to request a food bank referral and have it kept confidential without it being plastered all over the Internet as anecdotal evidence to present all benefits claimants as scroungers or liars

You really don't seem to be grasping that some disabilities aren't visible.