To believe the school over my dd?

[durdledoris]

Dd is in year 9 - was always an angel at primary , smashed her sats etc but now in year 9 isn't quite the angel she used to be. Has a lovely friend group but we quite often get emails from school saying she has been sanctioned in class for low level disruption- never goes any further than that and when we speak to her about it, it's always the same "it wasn't my fault" response. Never her fault.
Today she got a detention - apparently a boy behind her kept throwing paper at her so when she did it back, she got in trouble. The email from school said it was because she was disruptive and kept turning around.
We have been talking to her lately about her upcoming GCSE's and we know she will be ditching a few subjects but it's not fair to ruin it for others who want to learn so basically, in those subjects, keep a low profile amd do what you have to do to get through til the end of the,year, which is only a few weeks.
She is crying in her room saying it wasn't her fault today - aibu to keep her phone and tv remote while she has a long hard think about her behaviour?

I think it's actually time for the "well, it might not have been your fault on this occasion, but the problem is that so often it is your fault that the teachers are not going to cut you any slack" conversation. If she wants people to trust her then she has to show herself to be trustworthy.

Then she will have to learn.

The classroom is for learning and if a behaviour stops others learning andis distracting then they get sanctioned.

I sent one of my Y11s to isolation today for low level disruption. They currently think it's funny to shout out a friends mum/sister name disguised as a cough. So tedious. Either they don't care how annoying it is for others or they're that ignorant they think we will honestly believe they're coughing.

Behaviour policies focus around preventing learning time being wasted. It's nothing personal against a child. It's a clear policy with expectations.

The problem is that she has rather painted a target on herself by her other behaviour, so teachers are going to assume its more of the same even if it is occasionally not entirely her to blame.

I would be explaining this to her. Is it fair, possibly not. Is it understandable that when a teacher sees the kid that is consistently a PITA in class doing something they shouldnt, again, they assume the worst? Yes it is.

I think your advice is all correct and yes she should be telling the teacher rather than retaliating. Or more precisely, by all means choose to retaliate if you think that’s best, but if you do, suck it up when you get a detention! Or that’s what I would say.

Obviously I would be firmer if I thought my kids were starting violence or bullying etc - this would have me down like a ton of bricks- but for retaliating or low level bad behaviour it’s a bit “you pays your money you takes your choice”/ “play silly games win silly prizes”.

I wouldn’t give an additional sanction as the school have given her one already. I tend to think if they get a detention that’s their business (unless properly serious or the school have contacted me asking to work together, which has never happened). So in some ways no need to decide who you believe.

In fact neither of mine (yr12 and yr 7) have yet got a detention so I’m not saying that as a parent of kids constantly in trouble.

Sorry if I gave the impression I was defending the girl I know to my own detriment how impossible it is to teach in this kind of atmosphere! I should have gone on to say that her mother needs to try and get over to her just how annoying she is being!
I've written this before but years ago during the Catherine Tate's Lauren phase that almost drove teachers to drink one girl was notorious for her Wotevvaa, Am I bovvered etc etc performances in class. She stayed behind after one lesson and a completely different person quietly said she was stuck on her Coursework. She was shocked when I said Am I bovvered every time she spoke, after a couple of minutes I said Not nice, is it? We then arranged a time for her to come for the help she needed but next day her mother phoned Don't you ever speak to my daughter like that again..............Unless I'm there to see her face! Sometimes they need to be confronted with similar behaviour.

And here lies one of the key reasons why behaviour in schools is so shocking. The classroom is for learning! She is contributing towards that being impossible. We don’t sanction for anything, we sanction when students disrupt learning.

Another theme - her punishment is the detention. No it isn’t, it needs to be matched at home so she understands home support the school.

Go and spend one day in your local comprehensive school and see how many minutes of learning are lost every day to poor behaviour.

Fucking hell, we are doomed.

So when your colleague in the office sitting behind you throws stuff at you - you would just ignore it and not turn around?!? Why would you expect a kid to accept having stuff thrown at them when no adult would accept that?!?

I'm surprised by the number saying that being punished by school is enough and that parents shouldn't do any more. I think backing the school up shows that you take her behaviour seriously even if she doesn't learn from sanctions at school.

"it's always the same "it wasn't my fault" response. Never her fault."

DD has clearly used this on an occasion when something was her fault and you believed her so just uses this as a stock answer to avoid discussing further with you.
You state her response is always the same, so I wound't believe her at all. Have a chat with the school and take time to understand what is actually going on. By accepting her answer even if you do remove her phone, is allowing her to get away with poor behaviour and teaching her that lying is an easy way out.

Well done OP. So refreshing to see a parent supporting the school! Sounds like the teachers been really fair, the boy’s been punished too. Good for you. She will learn!

This. Basically. It’s annoying and the boy is wrong. But she shouldn’t have retaliated (and I say that as someone who might have done the same at that age)

edit: to clarify i think YANBU to believe the school. But I don’t think she needs an extra punishment at home, the school detention is enough. But I would probably tell her I’m disappointed - I don’t know if that would be helpful or not though

i was always being blamed for things I didn’t do at school. I wasn’t perfect but it was undeserved. Parents were not supportive. It had the adverse effect and I just started to be a pain… if they were going to blame me anyway…

I wouldn't punish her again, the detention IS the punishment! I would tell her to suck it up and ignore the crying and the protestations of innocence. Also tell her if she doesn't pull her socks up behaviour wise, she's going to find herself in more trouble and that could well compromise her future choices. I'm sure the school will be telling her the same thing.

What was she supposed to do, let the boy just chuck paper at her?

I wouldn't punish her at home for standing up to a boy being a dick.

The boy was punished too. She’s being punished for her reaction and handling of the situation which I think is fair enough!

My 3 daughters go to the same secondary school as some of their cousins and a few of my friends kids, there are a couple of parents who are constantly moaning that their kids are getting behaviour points/detentions for "no reason" and will blindly believe what their kid is saying. I know for a fine fact that they don't give out points/detentions for "no reason" because all of my daughters have got a total of 0, 1 and 2 points respectively for this entire school year. They also do a reward trip for kids who have got 5 or less behaviour points throughout the year and there's usually about a quarter of the kids on the trip.

I think you're doing the right thing op, even if she didn't start it this time she will unfortunately have a reputation for disrupting lessons so any form of disruption will be getting noticed by the teacher.

No it's not. If someone was chucking paper at me I'd turn round and tell them to pack it in. Not sit there and take it. What exactly is that teaching her?

She didn’t have to sit there and take it she could have told the teacher.
i hate people comparing school and teenage situations to adult/work life, it’s ridiculous. Teenagers are children. If Nigel from accounts was throwing bits of paper at you then it’s a completely different fucking issue isn’t it??
No wonder we’ve got a generation of kids who are entitled, rude and think the world owes them a living. We could do with more parents like the OP!

Year 9 do piss about (girls and boys)
The tears sound intense - but how does she usually react when she is caught out?
How good is she at knowing the school expectations? Chucking around paper is a bit too obviously out of line for a y9 to respond 'but they were doing it' (don't get me wrong I still deal with it in y10 but only with the hard core cheeky so and sos, i wouldnt expect it much from more 'settled' children).
Also, Angel at primary, pushing boundaries now - is this simply her teen rebellion? OR (and I will get a million eye rolls) masked ND? It gets harder to 'fit in' girls do start to stand out from their neurotypical peers as the complexity of interactions increases. It can be overwhelming and hard. (But so is being a teenager).

Why don't you believe your daughter? Why are you punishing her for having a messy room? And why are you muddling up different punishments?

You probably wouldn’t throw stuff back though.

You’d either call them out verbally or tell someone in authority, a line manager or HR.

Difficult. It sort of sounds as though the school's version tallies with hers to some degree. They say she kept turning round and she says it was because a boy behind her was throwing paper at her. Difficult to know if you weren't there. Let her take the school punishment and leave it at that.

Messy room? - I had 3 DDs, now all adults. I used to say that their room was their room and if they wanted to live in a tip that was their problem - I never went in and just closed the door. The rule was though that if the mess caused any damage - e.g. yoghurt leaking onto the carpet, then their money would mend it. They could clean it - they knew where the vacuum was - and sometimes they did. I never did once they were secondary age. They knew that no mess was to encroach on the rest of the house. And they were responsible if they failed to put stuff in the wash - they had to go out in dirty clothes and face the embarrassment.

There is little you can do to make school less tedious for her, but she does need to know that you value having consideration for others and she needs to be mindful of their needs.

Does she have an interest? - music, an instrument, a sport? These often help girls to get through these teenage years. They certainly did for mine.

I do think that schools are seriously weird environments for young people, some of whom love it and thrive, some are bored and indifferent, some hate it and most just grin and bear it till it's over. Bit of a waste of youth for many really.

Lol does that happen a lot where you work? If I have a problem with a colleague I either discuss it with them at an appropriate time or use the correct channels.

In this case the correct channel was to report it to the teacher.

In an office you are not sitting in silence listening to someone speak. And I would like to think that most adults are mature enough not to throw stuff in a meeting.

In a classroom you have a teacher explaining things and pupils listening. If someone is throwing stuff at you, then you put your hand up and let the teacher know. "Miss, please could you ask Fred to stop throwing things at me?". Then the teacher keeps an eye on Fred, and Fred gets a detention if he is then caught throwing something. Or you ignore them, then when the class is doing independent work, you speak to the teacher.

I'm not saying the kid has to accept having stuff thrown at them. I'm saying constantly turning round is NOT the way to deal with it.