To believe the school over my dd?

[durdledoris]

Dd is in year 9 - was always an angel at primary , smashed her sats etc but now in year 9 isn't quite the angel she used to be. Has a lovely friend group but we quite often get emails from school saying she has been sanctioned in class for low level disruption- never goes any further than that and when we speak to her about it, it's always the same "it wasn't my fault" response. Never her fault.
Today she got a detention - apparently a boy behind her kept throwing paper at her so when she did it back, she got in trouble. The email from school said it was because she was disruptive and kept turning around.
We have been talking to her lately about her upcoming GCSE's and we know she will be ditching a few subjects but it's not fair to ruin it for others who want to learn so basically, in those subjects, keep a low profile amd do what you have to do to get through til the end of the,year, which is only a few weeks.
She is crying in her room saying it wasn't her fault today - aibu to keep her phone and tv remote while she has a long hard think about her behaviour?

I worked in a primary so they just missed some of their break but we did warn them in year 6 this would be a whole lot worse in secondary. I would have paid money to see their faces when they got a negative comment and enough of them to get a detention.

Well if she starts behaving in class then the teachers will see the turnaround in her and if she then complains it is happening they might believe her. This is literally the consequences of her actions.

Sounds like my DD. It’s never ever her fault according to her. Unfortunately for her I work in the same school and have seen how she can behave with my own eyes! Like your DD it’s only low level stuff but it’s definitely started by her!! Always blames someone else though 🙄

I'd definitely speak to her but don't take her phone and tv - the punishment is the detention and over-egging it at home can be counterproductive.

It's great that you're supportive of the school but that doesn't have to include punishment.

I’d take her phone yes. My DD had to deal with years of disrupted classes. You’re right to support the school. I only got into trouble in school once, but I was definitely punished at home too.

I hardly think teachers will be sending unnecessary emails in their own time. They have better things to do. The OP is right.

She is continually causing low level disruption in class. She is old enough to know better. The message of this won’t be tolerated should be coming from home as well as school.

So why not tell her as 'punishment' (even though the school have already punished her), that she must clean her room immediately?

She’s old enough to not behave like this but well done for not letting her think she can get away with it

In this specific instance her account of the action and the school account match - the school is just missing a reason for her to be turning around. We ALL know it's very difficult in school when someone is annoying you to deal with it effectively for exactly this reason. On this occasion and the fact the actions match, I'd be inclined to believe that she was reacting to someone behind her and I wouldn't punish her. Keep addressing the general disruption though. I'd let her know you're on her side and want to support her getting through school. There's no point in just turning everything into a punitive experience.

Because cleaning your room isn’t a punishment it’s a reasonable expectation that you keep your living environment clean and relatively tidy.

All of your post applies to 2 very different dc's of mine.
Ds is clearly asd though no diagnosis so pissed about in lessons.
Dd was bored as the work was too easy.
Suggest dd can earn her tech back with a thorough clean of her room.
Examples of Ridiculous School Rules include an older ds being labelled a bully and a school meeting scheduled with us and the head for ds moving his best mate's school bag.
Nuts.

I think this is really tricky! I was like your daughter. When I was adamant I hadn't done anything wrong, my mum would remind me that behaviour creates reputation. Unfortunately if you are often disruptive, people won't believe you on the occasions that it genuinely isn't your fault.

Instead of coming down hard on her this time, help her plan what she can do next time someone antagonises her.

What Year 9 pu pil admits they're in the wrong? Her disruption is probably so low level that she really doesn't realise how it's interfering with the lesson.

I feel a bit sorry for her if the boy was winding her up, which no doubt he was. Express a bit of empathy with her.

What if shes telling the truth? Does she usually cry when she gets in trouble?

Then she needs to learn that her behaviour is affecting other children's education as well as her own. It is impossible to teach when this kind of thing is going on.

Just the sort of parental attitude a child and the school need! With her low level disruption being accepted and sanctioned by a parent will only encourage her to more serious things. When does a parent stop trying to be a friend and start being a parent?

Yes but clearly it's not happening when the OP is telling her to do it.

So 'lose your phone or tidy your room' would be appropriate here, if the OP really insists on her being punished more than once.

Her parent isn't 'accepting it' though.

Oh come on now lol.

She's either 13 or 14 years old.

She's presumably been at school since she was 4.

She knows what disruption is, and she will have had it pointed out to her by the teacher just incase for some wild reason she didn't.

Usually, the teacher has already made up their mind, has only seen what they have seen and isn't interested in any mitigating circumstances.

It's not really two different stories so you don't need to pick one to believe. She was part of the disruption, and some of her behaviour was deliberate and unnecessary, even if someone else started it and was bothering her. There are ways to deal with it, and it's not how she went about it.

'Low-level' really sounds like no big deal to people outside schools. But as soon as a teacher has to talk to one kid about leaning back on their chair, and another one takes the chance to put chewing gum in their mouth, someone else announces their pen has run out (instead of asking to borrow a spare with basic politeness), someone else is not so surreptitiously checking their phone, it's easy to miss who threw a ball of paper first, and anyone who joins in is still also a problem. This would all be annoying enough if you were just locked in a room with 30 kids wanting their own way. But the job is to teach them something, even if most can barely concentrate and won't listen, let alone try something that's difficult.

If it was just the situation with the paper, a one-off situation, I would absolutely believe your daughter over the school.

But there is recurring pattern here... Maybe it wasn't her fault today, but it's like the little boy that cried wolf by now.

And every one of us knows that if you ever try to explain anything to a teacher, it's viewed as answering back. Every single one of us knows that.

It’s really hard to know who’s right and who’s wrong with high school. On Tuesday my DD12 was in class and the girl next to her kept throwing balls of blue tac at the boy in front. He turned round and threw a pencil in my DD face hitting her and just missing her eye. Her guidance teacher saw it and asked him to step out. He told the teacher my DD was throwing blu tac at him so she got hauled out of class. She explained she hadn’t so he took the girl next to her out who admitted it was her and my DD. To which my daughter looked at the girl and told her to stop lying she had nothing to do with it. Her guidance teacher pulled my DD to the side and asked her again and she said I promise you I had 0 to do with this and his response was ‘ I don’t believe you and your lies, after me helping you with all your problems you throw it back in my face shame on you’ he also made her miss the bus home. She left school really upset by this rang me and told me she had missed the bus and told me what happened. Once she got home I said look into my eyes and tell me this wasn’t you and she said I promise you mum tell them to check the class cctv. So I said that’s fine I’ll ring the school tomorrow because the way this teacher spoke to my 12 year old wasn’t acceptable.

however today my DD made a silly joke in class that wasn’t received well by the person she made it to so he told the teacher and the teacher wasn’t happy with the comment. My DD rang me at lunch told me what she said and my response was well you said it so deal with the consequences. It was stupid accept fault apologise and take the punishment if there is one 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ nothing I can do to help you there. She never said anything overly bad but a stupid throw away joke. She had already apologised to the lad and teacher but I think the teacher did mention potential isolation and she was really upset but that’s her punishment. My DD has never been in trouble at school and her parents evening last month was 10/10 really good so I think the teacher may give her a bit of leniency as she couldn’t sing her praises loud enough. Then she walked in the door with a form to a trip for good behaviour 🤦🏻‍♀️ I’ve told her the ‘joke’ was stupid and why it was stupid and she knows that and I said if there is a punishment you take it and move on. She’s learnt her lesson. She hates getting into trouble so I know it will consume her with anxiety for a while now xx