To wonder why working class white boys do worse than any other ethnic group, and how we can change this?

[Carla786]

A lot of stuff I've read recently has argued the way school is set up disadvantages boys compared to girls. But this doesn't explain why white working class boys would perform worse than wc boys of other ethnicities.
Asian wc boys are more likely to have present fathers,,but black wc boys less likely than white boys (I think). So absent fathers I'm sure are part of the problem, but then maybe also black boys then have a protective factor that still boosts performance which white boys don't have? What could this be?

And how can white wc boys be helped? The question also remains why white wc girls are apparently less affected too : maybe I suppose tying in to school methods being more suited to the average girl?

https://www.spiked-online.com/2026/03/24/the-betrayal-of-white-working-class-boys/

Also, the parents who say to you "we pick our battles", although I tend to find that's more the middle class underachievers.

From what I've seen you either need to be brilliant like DH from go so when you encounted teachers career people telling you to aim lower you have talent and belief to ignore to a large extent.

I'm female but I and some working class boys like me struggling in my primary - one without behavorial issues or bad attitude - which is probably why my brother did not get same oppountity - to go onto actually good programs that catch you up if you struggle or fall behind. As staff shotages and money tighening hits expect they'll be less of those.

If you go to a school were the programs they have you can't get on - my DC were not struggling enough apparently - parents like us do reseach and step in some how. Endless excused why DS was struggling offered - summer born being a common one - but help no and when asking how to help they never wanted to tell us. Now more resources you have easier stepping in is anyway but with siblings children and parents we knew where DC grew up - all working class - there was an expectation it was school issues to solve rather than something to help at home with as well - that varies as DH and I show.

Also approaching some schools and teachers you background can influence how you are treated - dropping DH PhD and watching change in attitude was depressingly useful. On flip side having seen behavior towards staff at some schools can see why a us vs them attiude develops. It's not pleasant though when you politely go in with a carefully measured issue and get met with dismisal and agressive or suspicious reponses immediatley.

I think enough working class boys like DH get through doing well that everyone can claim it's not the system - and one who don't parents blame schools and schools blame parents - and middle class parents can sneer at working one blaming them when their access to same resources to push their kids along is lower.

That is a load of rubbish. I think church attendance in the UK in that teenage group the highest would be black Caribbean boys.

It is not accepted that children from GRT backgrounds are massively behind, there is just little than can be done about it because if parents refuse to consent it's game over. There are small pockets of Traveller girls that have gone onto third level education (and boys to a lesser extent) but that is because the communities they live in have allowed this. If you live in a community that will shun you or label your daughter as a whore for going to secondary school, no amount of government funding will help. Attitudes need to change before action can be implemented, the same for the WC boys.

I do!!
eg I say maths is important for estimating costs and eg how much you require.

I suspect also that AI will change things. Trades will be AI proof.

All the tradies I know did well. A few sent their children to private schools. Now I wonder if the benefit would e been to encourage them to follow the trade.

Teaching and nursing are accessible careers and then their children are pushed. Moving up a class generationally.

I do think class has a big impact. I’ve heard so many 15 year olds say my parents tell me I have to
contribute to the house costs so I’m getting a job when I’m leaving school.

Alternatives to education are difficult to get. There’s not enough apprenticeships for those that want them. Plus barriers such as maths English requirements.

A digression but I also find this irritating.

All the middle class parents up in arms about the outrage of their children being given homework in primary school, which was a huge thing when my DD was at primary, and not pushing them too hard, insisting that the holidays are about rest.

Obviously pushing children too hard is counterproductive and they need rest… but I do find the contrast between this and immigrant families very striking.

The hard reality is that the children whose parents push them to achieve will generally have better outcomes than those whose parents don’t (excluding other factors).

The pollyannaism of some middle class parents who insist that their children know how to motivate themselves is a sign of a pretty decadent society. And, being middle class, they can afford not to fear that they are at risk of social failure all the time. It creates a downwardly mobile, aspiration free environment which is not good for outcomes.

Children shouldn’t be brutalised through school, but a bit of a sense of urgency is needed.

They don’t.

Men still have a far better economic outlook in life than women. That has not changed. Women have to choose between a family and a career once again, and choosing a family means we pay the highest motherhood penalty in Europe.

Educational achievement matters the square of fuck all already. Women’s professional careers pay far less than men’s work, not because they are less valuable to society but because women do them. This is why women teachers are getting more and more shit from younger and younger boys in school. They know what a woman is and exactly how much women are worth.

There is no hope of change: every time we have worked for change men change the fucking rules.

Just don’t have kids for these abysmal animals.

Exactly, @Thepeopleversuswork . It's used frequently.
Why didn't he do revision for the test?
Why didn't she act on feedback?
Why hasn't he attended extra help sessions?
Why is she breaking uniform policy wearing a micro skirt?
"We pick our battles".
So tired of it.

I fully share this view.

And to add to this that these groups of low aspirations under achievers usually don't go to marry and have kids with high achievers, or even rarely mix socially. And yes, welfare props this up indefinitely.

You might not use geometry, algebra or physics, nor become a concert pianist after piano lessons but brains are plastic apparently and all of this stretching of understanding must surely develop children’s brains and I would say that that is a good thing.

As a south Asian 7yo child immigrant giving my personal perspective, I can say it wasn't even value of education. Yes, my mum threatened us with the dreaded slipper to get us to bed at 8pm each night and my dad dragged our arses to school by car before going to work. We had no guidance on careers, graduate schemes, vocations - nothing. We didn't belong anywhere, we were in limbo and it was just a relentless desire to keep going, to get to the next stage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8lnpyg7nno

These white working class girls know damn well it doesn’t matter how much they achieve.

I'm really tired of hearing that the education system isn't set up for boys. It's quite clear that it's not set up for anyone in particular, and many of the people who do well at school do so because they adapt and adjust as well as they can. There's nothing specifically bad about it that is uniquely not set up for boys.

I come from a multicultural background and I honestly think many white British people don't have the same family values as some other cultures.

There's also a massive ignorance on here of the ways in which the working class traditionally accessed education. Working class doesn't mean fucking stupid.

Bangladeshi children in Tower Hamlets saw a massive improvement and I believe there are a few girls schools there that are high achieving at GCSE now, perhaps even top 10 state? Anyhow, the reports on the interventions are interesting. Most parents first gen immigrants, little/no English, fathers working 60+ hours per week in catering, mums at home, DC living in overcrowded conditions below the poverty line. The children reported they had little to no guidance from home, parents didn't know how to navigate school system or even communicate with school. Home links teachers fluent in Bengali bridged this gap, parents became more confident to get involved with the school and knew what was expected homework wise. The aspiration was always there (which is key) but there was a lack of direction. This obviously took time but look at the results. If the will is there a lot can be achieved.

So you challenging people in this thread to defend the strawman you posted was a pointless waste of time. Figured as much.

White and male is generally a massive advantage in life, careers etc.

So perhaps rather than looking at Asian and black groups it would better to compare “like with like”? I appreciate that is not a good turn of phrase but we are removing impact of negative racial bias, second/third language as English, non English speaking parents, impact of war and displacement on a young child etc.

So why are white males book-ending the achievement spectrum? One group massively underachieving and one overachieving (partly through white and male privilege)?

I also find there’s an almost fetishistic emphasis on “rest” among a certain kind of progressive MC parent.

Obviously children need to get enough sleep and shouldn’t be working around the clock. Rest is good.

But I have heard parents say that its important to have weeks of “rest” over the summer holidays as if they were talking about parents with consumption in a sanatorium. In practice this often means weeks of being on Minecraft, not doing much.

My DD had a school friend whose mother wouldn’t let her play out for the first two weeks of the summer because she needed “rest”.

I fail to understand why a playdate or doing a couple of hours’ revision is going to do any harm.

Children are young and have lots of energy. They can take a bit of push.

I'm so glad things have improved. I wish we had had this in the 80s/90s.

Because generally class is always an overriding factor. The only ethnic group where socioeconomic group does not affect attainment is Chinese. Obviously BME have immediate outward barriers such as colour, name, perceived religion from the outset. The system is designed by white powerful men to enable and uphold other white powerful men. Those at the top have always looked down at those below them.

So why does this affect the boys and not the girls

Is it a massive advantage though? If you yourself are acknowledging that half of them are being left behind, it might be an idea to rethink that assumption.

It is most definitely designed for those who are able to sit still, learn and regurgitate large quantities of information. And if it were girls who consistently did worse, year on year, it would most certainly be an issue.

It certainly doesn't happen in our local secondary. They leave that for the colleges to sort out. My eldest wasn't staying for A levels but the school spend an awful lot of time talking about A level courses and UCAS points. Not much for those who were going elsewhere after GCSE