Why is EBSA more common nowadays?

[HotLikePapaJohns]

Why is EBSA more common nowadays?

I have read on other threads that it's always been an issue but I don't remember it as a child. Yes, there was some truancy in secondary but not in primary.

Is it that kids are more able to express their feelings? Or that school has become harder? What can be done about it?

Absolutely. I have 'one of each'.

Woe betide anyone who says to my face that my DS' EBSA was down to our parenting. You truly have no idea what it's like. You are just extremely lucky you have children who are able to attend school. It's got little do do with your wonderful parenting skills.

I think we do soooooo much in schools now, especially primary. I don’t know where the idea that primary schools aren’t “playful” or “fun” anymore has come from? We are constantly doing active learning, brain breaks, sensory breaks, activity days, team building, theme days etc - children regularly have access to adults to talk to about how they’re feeling, support plans etc. if they come in to school and say they’re hungry, they get food, if they come in upset, they get support. Schools have come a long way and I wish people would see all of these positives.

I'd agree entirely with this it starts when they are tiny.
My kids aged 11 and 13 just would never dream of outright refusing to go to school.

I mean people post threads on here where their teenagers have called them a 'fucking bitch'?! I mean I would never have dared to call either of my parents something like that and yes I had plenty of rows with them in my teens but not a chance would I have used language like that it speaks of a fundamental and total lack of respect.

I'm often shocked when I hear the tone of voice some primary aged children use when addressing their own parents - bossing them about, demanding this and that. And their parents do nothing. My children were called out big time if they tried speaking to me like that and there were consequences like loss of screen or TV time, as a result they learnt early on who was in charge

Its way too late trying to implement this stuff with teenagers you've missed the boat

Yeah, I've never had to, erm, 'call my kids out big time' for swearing at me because they don't swear at me. What an odd but telling conflation.

I actually find that pretty insulting. My kids have struggled with EBSA but they are polite, respectful and would never swear at me. As ever, nuance in these discussions is key. There are of course some who have been brought up with no.discipline, boundaries or concept of obedience and they may skip school for the 'obvious' reasons that people who dont understand EBSA may think of. Then there are kids, many of them ND who simply cannot thrive or in some cases survive in the modern school environment which, incidentally, bears little relation to many modern workplaces, so saying 'well they'll have to just get in with it as adults' is a weak argument. One of my kids knows fine well that she wants a job with flexibility, creativity etc, possibly self employed. Adults have the power to shape their circumstances. Kids do not and for teens especially, there are good reasons why some may choose to take some control over their daily lives. As I said upthread, attendance at a mainstream school is now only one of various ways its possible to progress and if a parent is recognising that their child is being harmed by an environment, they are not wrong to seek alternatives. As a pp said, it is certainly.not the easy or lazy option.

Thinking about it I wonder if some of it is those very strict secondary schools. I've heard of bootcamp week for year 7s to get them used to the rules or being put in isolation for having an untucked shirt or SLANT where your eyes have to follow the teacher all the time when they're speaking. I was a pretty well behaved child but I'd have been a nervous wreck at that sort of school.

How does this make sense when I have two children that I have parented exactly the same. One has always done what he’s told, gone to school no bother, loves it, has friends and is happy.

The other one cried inconsolably when attending nursery, preschool, primary and secondary. Still crying on attending school at the age of 17. Threats, bribes, punishments have all been carried out. Forced to go into school by me - literally dropped off at the door and handed to teachers. This child would beg and plead not to go, clinging onto railings and self harming. School frequently called me to come and collect him as he was so upset and overwhelmed. Horrific 3 day long migraines which the GP said were caused by the stress of school. A year of therapy from CAMHS. Made no difference because he’s autistic.

Both kids live always lived in the same house with the same parents. How is it the parenting?

Did you try calling him out 'big time'@batshitaboutcatshit? Or, something just short of beating him, <checks notes> like the Asians?

People do realise that data shows teacher absence mirrors children’s absence, right? Some is due to environment, some is due to long term illness (why is long covid in children and teachers left out of discussions comparing pre-covid and with covid figures).

I had no idea that was the case. That's really interesting.

I'm not talking only about swearing my children have never sworn at me. I'm talking about tone of voice, disrespect, children trying to use a demanding tone of voice with a parent.

..

You can mock other posters all you like but our children are in school and thriving and happy so perhaps we are doing something right?

People are telling you that they have children who have thrived and children who have EBSA, who were raised in the same way, the same home, presumably (and true in my case) attended the same school. And yet, this doesn't seem to deter these simple and offensive generalisations about their parenting methods and standards.

I have an exceptional dd. Really properly exceptional. Not just thriving. That is no more down to my parenting than my dd who was under CAMHS, had EBSA, autism diagnosis and is now claiming PIP.

They went to the same school. Dd2 is head girl. The headteacher phoned me when she won £600 pounds for her school in a national essay comp to tell me that I must be so proud and she had obviously been parented well. I’m not responsible for either situation really. They are who they are.

I have a non - verbal autistic nephew. Autism is highly genetic. It’s likely both dds are autistic but it presents differently.

I think people just don't get the impact.

All of the "well just be stricter, just tell them, my kids respect me" stuff. Have you never experienced anything that scares you and makes you feel overwhelmed? Like how some people love rollercoasters but for others they're horrific, or jumping out of a plane, or being shut in a room full or snakes or spiders. Some people would be fine with any of these.

School is like that for DS, the noise, the unsureness, not knowing what's going to happen, where he should sit, if he will have to speak, if a classroom or a teacher has changed. If suddenly the topic they were supposed to do they're not doing because they've got a cover teacher in. For him, it's like having to stand at the door of a plane being waiting to be told to do a parachute jump he doesn't want to do, every day, 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. Would you put your child through that? Even if it seems a stupid fear to you, people who like spiders probably think thats a stupid fear for others too.

He is bright and wants to learn, in therapy one of his biggest worries is not getting an education and how that will impact his future.

But no amount of strictness is going to make him feel less terrified. We're working on the fear with therapy to try and make life more manageable for him, which is a reasonable way to treat anyone, adult or child. Forcing a person to do something that makes them feel so scared they're sick, over and over again isn't "good parenting" it's torture.

Exactly. I am also a teacher and I don’t struggle with behaviour in my classes. If I were so weak and poor in my parenting, surely the teens I teach would be feral? But they’re not - they’re working well and achieving.

Strictness would make dd1 escalate. She would do anything to avoid school, including saying she’d take an overdose or even saying she’d done so. She would run away or even run out of the school building during school time.

Normal parenting absolutely does not produce extreme behaviour like that. It just doesn’t.

Sorry but as a teacher of lengthy tenure myself, I could not disagree more with this. The curriculum is too hard and too full and there is a constant push to achieve targets and do more. Finishing work isn’t enough now- it’s here is a challenge task. It’s constant pushing and stress. There is too much formal testing and too much content to cover. Every second of every day is filled and the focus on evidencing
everything is ridiculous. The majority of kids absolutely do not enjoy school anymore. My own children have SEN and they don’t get the support they need.
Ofsted has become the big focus and every single teacher I know is stressed and overworked. The vast majority of school avoiding children have SEN with unmet needs who this pressure cooker environment does not suit. There is no money for anything so resources are the bare minimum and there isn’t the room for fun, flexibility or spontaneity there was previously. Training on SEN is woeful and TA support has been cut to the bone while we get more and more children struggling. School really isn’t fun anymore and everyone there is under pressure constantly. I say this as a teacher who does their best to be positive and give a good experience to those I teach but Education is utterly broken.

I genuinely can’t remember anything ‘fun’ about secondary school apart from school trips. I liked school because I genuinely liked learning and I liked seeing my friends. It still wasn’t really fun as such. I think we had 1 or maybe 2 hours of PE a week, minimal art or music. Behaviour was variable. There was definitely a lot of back chat.

Are things really that much worse now?

Your lack of knowledge on this subject would be shocking if it wasn't so laughably incorrect.
Sure, there are some children, probably many in some schools, whose parents couldn't care less whether they attend school or not and therefore make no effort.
Meanwhile there are many hundreds, perhaps thousands, of parents who are at the end of their tether trying to support their children back into school. Parents who have tried everything imaginable to make it work for their children. And yet they are still hyperventilating, having panic attacks, becoming physically ill, close to suicidal. Trust me, if your child is like this then you are not to blame. Usually the blame is fairly and squarely on the school environment and the behaviour of peers.

On obedience - my DC is utterly obedient - they bend over backwards to do everything asked of them and get extremely stressed if they think they haven't done everything required. They also get stressed if other people are not obedient and don't follow the rules or if there is any kind of conflict.

Nope - not had any of that either. In our case I do wonder if the lack of conflict in our home made DC unable to deal with conflict elsewhere but how do you engineer conflict when all your parenting is around modelling good behaviours and your DC's older siblings have absorbed these behaviours themselves.

@Leavelingeringbreath Perhaps your oh so perfect home has more conflict than mine. That might be why your oh so perfect children are fine. That doesn't mean there was anything wrong with our parenting.

I’ve got 4 dc. All ND (as am I)
dd1/2 both managed in school (not thrived). Dd2 burnt out at uni.
looking back I think burn out explains my A level experience.
Dd3 was struggling before covid, covid unmasked her and she enjoyed getting on with her work without people interrupting her. After Covid she went back but as she got towards secondary she struggled with social aspects. Secondary school was huge, she liked the lessons but not everything else. Total burn out. Barely moved/ate/talked for 6 months and it’s been a very slow recovery. Now on year 3 out of school but not mentally well enough to go back.
ds is at the same school as the girls and is doing well. He’s developed strategies because he’s more aware of being ND and he’s therefore managing better. He still struggles with others being disruptive in class and noisy corridors, unclear demands etc

My DD is the same. It was an issue in primary in particular as she didn’t understand why people didn’t just behave, and then would see them being rewarded.

I have always worried that some of DDs issues were worsened by having a very quiet/calm home. I always allowed other around to play whenever. But during Covid the house was very quiet, especially as DH was working. Throwing her back into a school environment must have been a terrible shock.

I am sure you do not need me to tell you but in case you do, it isn’t.