Benefits v Defence Lord Robertson

[Wednesdayschild87]

Lord Robertson’s Speech… seriously does anyone care?? He’s laid out the fact that as a nation we can’t carry on like this… he said we can’t afford to keep throwing money at benefits whilst leaving our country defences I’m actually shocked no one has come out and spoken on this matter before. I’m incredulous.

But ultimately they end up hanging around. Working in the grey economy and in the hope they'll be granted asylum.

Meanwhile I read lawyers in the UK are advising them to claim they are gay and at risk in their home country. WTF
Who's paying their legal bills?

Some peoole with mental health conditions are never going to be able to work
Some people have severe and enduring mental illness,s such as shizophrenia ,Bi polar disorder ,shizo aaffective disorder etc
And some people with these diagnoses are unable to reach a point of stability for a variety of reasons

A reason why their child is struggling with anxiety, crying every morning before school.

But reading the school threads its the school system is too rammed with stuff and the kids are unable to cope

raises hand

M3

13 years ago

Prior to that I was on ESA in the support group for 3 1/2 years. That was following a mental breakdown, that led to my last suicide attempt, that nearly succeeded, that left me with medical PTSD and oh yeah cost me my job! 🙃🫠

Luckily for me during those 3 1/2 years I had ACTUAL mental health support. I saw my (same) GP on a weekly basis, I saw my community psychiatric nurse weekly, and I saw my psychiatrist and occupational therapist monthly. And thankfully bar the year medicals was for the most part left alone by DWP. THAT is what got me back into work.

Honestly as the system is now? On UC? I think it would have already have killed me off in my prior suicidal state.

End of the day the support I was incredibly thankful to have, simply no longer exists. And I can tell you that I part cos my mental health hasn't actually been stable for 13 years but I've just had to learn to get on with it as I know damn well there basically is NO support. It took over 30 damn referrals from the GP (and I can verify that by the fact I've seen my medical records) for the community psychiatric team to even accept me for a a new MH assessment. I saw a psychiatrist twice. In that time he told me I'd be starting a new anti depressant and to titrate off my current one (at the time I was diagnosed with a nd had been treated for bipolar for the past 12 years). The next thing I knew I had been discharged back to the care of my GP
And no, I didn't start the new meds cos he decided I didn't need them oh that I also apparently did not have bipolar after all (great to know after being uneedlessly medicated with the max dose of various antipsychotics for over a decade! 🤦🏻‍♀️). Which left me in the situation of no anti depressants and no treatment (and seemingly no diagnosis).

Thankfully my GP is actually quite a decent doctor, she started me on a different anti depressant that actually has helped. And in the 3 years since then was diagnosed and since medicated for the ADHD id had all along..which has made quite the difference.

And yes you're going to argue I'm in outlier, but ask yourself why? MAYBE it's because I was lucky enough to get ACTUAL support and treatment? 🤔

I don't support Reform I think Farage its a nutter. But something has to give.

The UK can't afford to support people they way people want supported.
The tax system is far too complicated
Every other day another business is in the news laying of staff, shutting shops or pub chains
The higher earners are avoiding pay rises and cutting hours, even SNPs higher tax rate isn't bringing in what they thought because of people cutting hours.

Something needs to give

The fact that the benefits / health / social care bills are so high comes down to our ageing population.

Modern definitions of "disabled" have become so broad that they are covering a huge proportion of the population, including many who in the past would not have been considered disabled and would simply have been expected to suck it up somewhat, struggle with whatever difficulties they had and work regardless. This is quite unpalatable for a lot of people to hear, because its a scary change imagining no longer living on benefits and having to work.
But actually there are a lot of people for whom might initially be a shock & struggle but longer term it would provide structure, purpose and fulfilment and improve mental health.

I have multiple sclerosis. For what it's worth I'm still working but I'm very interested in your plan to make us all better.

How do you make employers take on disabled people?

I fundamentally think there needs to be a return to narrower definitions of disability, that target support to the severely disabled - predominantly permanent/long term physical disabilities, serious genetic conditions, severe learning disabilities & terminal or progressive illnesses like MS.

If everyone is "disabled" no one is.

that was not an answer

I think if they were trained they would be worse than they are now. They don't like our country so why would they fight for it.
Its so dangerous.

What are YOU going to do when society breaks down and epidemic disease is rife because of all the sick people living on the streets?

Oh, and the engineered panic about the benefits bill? Read this.

When you've digested that, try to understand that, as countless disabled people have explained a zillion times, shoving long-term sick and disabled people into jobs will not cut the PIP bill because PIP is paid whether we work or not.

Not everyone is going to fit neatly into a definition though. Some disabled people have unknown/uncertain futures, maybe they will be able to work at some point but it's also possible that they won't be able to.

Stupid people get jobs all the time. They then tend to spout nonsense on online forums about how people can cure their crippling anxiety by just forcing themselves to do things.

Nobody can simply declare themselves disabled and receive benefits equivalent to a wage 😂 There are gruelling assessments and lots of medical evidence needed. Especially for MH related claims.

I understand very much ❤️

Well the very worst thing would probably be suicide really.

@StillOnTheWaitingList I agree it started in the 70s, we sold things off. All about short term gain.

Employers already hire many people with disabilities. I have an autistic guy in my team who is allowed to be almost fully remote as an adjustment, and in my last job we had a colleague with a guide dog. My friend has struggled with depression & anxiety but has always worked, but it meant she left a stressful high paid job for something she could manage doing 30 hours a week, and she is sensible about how she plans her weekends and holidays to maximise giving herself a break. I also know lots of people who work in various roles despite having children with disabilities - my friend is head of marketing in major corporate despite having a DD with cerebral palsy who's at special school, another friend works in finance but has a DC with down syndrome & a lot of health issues who will never live independently.

Employers already offer huge adjustments & flexibility but people also need to be realistic that if they've got disabilities they might have fewer options and can't work in their dream profession, or might need to accept lower pay.

If its that hard how have so many people qualified?

There was a piece on the bbc only a couple of weeks back about a lady who was getting pip on the basis she'd claimed (and presumably had extensive medical evidence for) anxiety so severe she couldn't leave the house, but was in fact off on adventure holidays.

With mental health the vast majority of evidence is formed through several years of self reporting your symptoms. To be clear I don't think most people deliberately abuse the system, I do think they genuinely think they are disabled & undoubtedly struggle but we can't afford to fund such a huge proportion of working age people to not work. I think a good few would find they could manage some work if they had to to eat & pay the bills.

We have to ask ourselves - how did all these people manage before? There's been an explosion of benefits for disability among working age people.

Sadly people lack grit & resilience. Our grandparents struggled through rationing & the blitz, flu pandemics that killed thousands. There were no anti depressants, things like asthma & diabetes were less well managed, children all got measles, mumps, polio etc and often suffered life long impacts. Life was hard , working hours were long, people had poorer employment rights housing,worse diets, poor health due to smoking & had fewer educational opportunities yet they managed to work.

i agree but unfortunately the system is way too easy to be abused. The amount of people in the criminal justice system, particularly in prisons who are living off PIP in the community, have not worked in years due to anxiety, depression, ADHD and autism claiming the conditions prevents them from working is a scandal nobody is talking about. How many of those do you think refuse a full days work in prison when it gets them out of their cells and they make a bit of money? Close to zero. Suddenly they can work in the kitchens, gardens, workshops etc just fine. Then straight back onto PIP with a sidehussle of crime on release.

Unless there is a diagnosed mental health or serious personality disorders with a far greater threshold of evidence required, people should be on jobseekers and supported back into work not signed off for years as they are currently.

Illegal immigrants aren’t working in ‘normal’ jobs though are they. They’re working on the black market. If they’re here illegally, they can’t rock up to Tesco and apply for a job. Everyone agrees no one should be here illegally, but they aren’t affecting the number of jobs. They’re two completely unrelated issues

We also aren’t processing illegal immigrants, if they’re here illegally, they’re avoiding the authorities, not submitting for processing.

Generally speaking, women didn't, they raised families (just 30% worked in 1950, its now 78%)
Also much more manual repetitive employment available, which suit some people with MH issues.

Employment rate in the adult population is 75.1% it highest ever point was in 2018 @ 76%

Male employment rate is also at near record highs.

This idea we are all on PIP and claiming is for the birds.

Low wages is much of the reason we, as a society are struggling to afford what we want, together with the demand the state step in whenever times get tough but of course the biggie is we are all living loinger... take a walk around your local hospital, it isn't full of the under 50s...