To suspect police are worried about vigilantes - Epsom attack

[ReadingCrimeFiction]

I live relatively close to Epsom and so this appalling assault is all over my news feeds and social media.

BBC News - Town left in shock by appalling rape outside church
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8dl5yevjg9o

The police have asked for witnesses but no descriptions have been given. Cue lots of very disturbing posts and comments from people who very clearly think these men are not white.

I can think of half a dozen scenarios where this is not being disclosed but, based on the comments, I think it all comes down to fears that local communities will take it on themselves to "apprehend" anyone who even vaguely looks like the perpetrators? And while the comments I am seeing are mostly white people being disgusting in their assumptions about brown and black people, i can imagine police would he equally concerned if, for example, the woman was Asian or Black and her attackers were white.

Is this where we are at? Where people make horrible racist assumptions and/or where police have to worry about how they will protect the broader community if they give any details of criminals?

How would they get an idea of race or age if the perpetrators are covered up?

Why ‘well paid’?

I’m open to all eventualities, but I’m not discounting any of them. The natural
order is racists and then racists and nazis. We’ve all been on the internet long enough to know the direction of travel.

Nope. I described a situation. In a city. Where I live.

You maybe cannot read that far.

Surely you need to mention what race they are in order to apprehend them?

What city is this?

Mischievous toast? I assume you are accusing me of being a bot or a troll? No such luck I’m afraid.

I think they probably are worried about vigilante violence and it is really difficult to walk a line between not unleashing that and making it worse by withholding information.

I think the way to go is actually to address it openly and have community leaders say - we need to have room to find out who the perpetrators are here and they will be prosecuted when we have what we need.

As far as people assuming they are "not white." That's not really the point, is it - it's not John, the neighbour whose grandparents came from Trinidad, who is the person they think could be responsible. They are thinking it's someone part of a culture with a pattern of violence against women. I am not sure how people who cannot seem to differentiate that are supposed to be "antiracist" but that seems to be the label they claim for themselves.

It's a mistake to make an assumption based on that, for all kinds of good reasons, but people are fooling themselves if they are claiming there has been no pattern across Europe with these kinds of random sexual assaults in recent years. All the data that has been collected supports that. That is what people are picking up on and the attempts to brush it off as "just men" make it much worse, not better. Because it looks like people who will brush things away if it doesn't fit their race politics, including attitudes toward the sexual assault of women. And if you see people who put their purity politics over the dignity and safety of women, you might very well think they won't investigate the crime properly.

American antiracist ideology, which is the opposite of what it sounds like, is an infection and needs to be stamped out.

One that is colder than London, and has real otters in the rivers. (I am not going to doxx myself.)

No I won't stop using the word 'packs' it's accurate.
I've been clear that I'm talking about culture not race.
I'm also sure that there are countries where the predominant ethnic people are brown or black that are generally respectful of women, too.

Are these young white men committing gang rape? After all, this is the crime we're discussing here.

As for your last point it is blatant whataboutery.

I didn't know this, it seems ridiculous to me.

Surely the facts could help target interventions, spot where problems originate and reduce offending.

FWIW patriarchy is the main culture of violence against women.

See, for example, the US President and his many followers.

That’s generally the go to. Look at the current enquiry and the minimising that is evidenced as happening, anyone raising concerns at the time would be accused of the same as the post to you and similar to this thread.

Sorry to see lack of logic here.

Exactly what I’ve inferred in my report post. People naking too much sense on a hot potato subject need to be censored and silenced. When debate doesn’t work the jump is to reputational damage. Shut them down by accusations of being a bot or a troll or some paid shill. Sorry guys. I’m human, a woman and I have well informed and educated opinions. Dangerous stuff.

The police not disclosing the description automatically makes me think that there is a reason, imo the reason is nearly always immigration. They’re quick enough to make it known when it is a longterm citizen.

Are you sure about this @Hoardasurass?

"A bill" that has been passed becomes an Act of Parliament. An Act can only be repealed by another Act of Parliament, which has to go through all the same stages, ie first and second readings, committee stage, report stage etc. I think there would have been enough publicity about such an Act being passed and then repealed that I would remember it. It would have been a pretty big deal, and very contentious, for a new government to do something like that so early in its term of office.

What I think is more likely that the bill was in the early stages of its parliamentary journey when the election was called and parliament was suspended, and that it therefore fell, like any other bill that is going through the parliamentary process when a GE is called.

ETA: If repealing the bill had been in Labour's manifesto, that would have been a different matter, but I don't think it was and I don't think they would have had time to go through the repeal process in the relatively short time they've been in office.

Yes, I am revolted by posters trying to derail concern for the humanity of all involved; revolted by posters who run to blame using dogwhistles; revolted by these same posters mocking and ignoring posts that centre the rape survivor and show insight into the effects of trauma.

Hmmmm, well the Met havent exactly covered themselves in glory on a good many occasions, have they ?

Yep. It’s incredible really that’s what happens. Look at the Southport case. At last it can’t be denied, women are right.

Yes, this is a perfect example of what I mean.

You won't allow that there are vast cultural differernces in attitudes to women in differernt cultures - which seems completely bonkers and indefensible on the face of it, like how can anyone be unaware of that?

To the point that you deflect away from even hard data with this kind of vague "it's the patriarchy man" stuff and an implication that people are racists if they acknowledge empirical information.

Because they track back through the cctv footage on the journey to the site of the crime and trace them to the point where they were not covered up, etc. General profiling also means that you can ascertain approximate age by gait, clothing etc. It doesn’t help with identification of individuals but they will have an idea of whether they are looking for a group of white lads or not.

Having interrupted a burglary of fully balaclava-ed individuals myself, and only interacted with them for 15secs before they ran out, both I and the police were able to say with 99% certainty what age and ethnicity they were which was confirmed by DNA on subsequent arrest (white, in case you suspect I am a frothing Reform voter, rather than a person from a mixed race/multi-cultural, largely muslim extended family including asylum-seeker grandparents).

Eh?
The lack of logic is from you, not me!