I come from a Romany gypsy & Irish traveller family. General chat…

[TT0107]

Just as the title suggests. I’ve noticed how travellers have become more accepted and tbh a bit idolised over social media (The people who are watching and liking those particular videos). Anyway my mum was raised in a horse drawn wagon moving around, my dad moved around with horses too but was staying in trailers (Caravans). Dad is Irish and mum is Romany. I don’t really interact with people nowadays and no matter the ordinary life I live I still feel deep inside that I’m just different no matter what. Not in a bad way, just that the way I was raised will always be there. My youngest child is mixed race, her father being black and my dad has never met her and has no interest to. I guess I went against the grain although to be quite honest my mother raised me very very well. Respect was always standard there was no time for disrespectful children when it came to my mum. I’d never walk into someone’s home with shoes on. Never help myself to food or drink. Never just get up and use the toilet without asking. Don’t touch anything, ornaments and anything tbh wasn’t to be touched by children. Don’t dare use the show plates. My mum never allowed anyone in her place ever. She had a hate for anyone who drank or smoked, well til this day you’d never see her sitting or standing with anyone drinking or smoking. I wasn’t allowed to go round friends houses as a child or teenager apart from 1 girl who only had a mother and sisters at home. This is just a light hearted chat if anyone wants to contribute. My mum never went to school as a child so therefore couldn’t read or write but she’s taught herself little bits along the way. She ended up with my stepdad over 30 years ago now who has provided her a lifestyle most can only dream off. Her life up until a few years back was just horses and cleaning the home. I do feel that the way my mum raised me has made me a very over protective person which I’m glad about. My mum would never steal from anybody (Just addressing the stereotype), she’s a very holy woman and even if she didn’t have a pound to her name and she saw someone unknowingly drop money she’d stop and hand it back to them. I’m a carer by job and everyone I visit and care for i can guarantee nothing, absolutely nothing will be trivialised with me. I do take extra time and effort to do the little things for these people and I care for them as if they were my own family and if I ever saw or heard anything untoward whether from their family member or even other staff carers I would take it upon myself to protect and I wouldn’t stop until something was done. (That should be standard for all carers but it isn’t always unfortunately) Again my mum raised me a very empathetic way and to see the things that people regularly overlook in life. She is a deeply compassionate woman more than I’ve ever known anyone to be in this life.

@Minjou Yes my son left school in year 10 because he spent years being bullied and was wandering around school site avoiding going to lessons. He has a speech stammer and a vocal and tic disorder and was bullied beyond belief to the point he couldn’t get a word out during the time he was in school. He was depressed as anything and gave up caring about washing himself or getting himself dressed properly. Do you want any more information? He was being sent home every other day from school and was also assaulted by a teacher. He used to have plates of food rubbed in his face and nothing was done by the school. He used to get groups of boys pushing him to the floor and stamping on his head and ribs and videoing it and still the school done nothing. School isn’t always a nice place. My son is now thriving and the most important thing he’s happy and safe

I find it interesting that you talk about wanting to dispel stereotypes and yet you’re also talking about non travellers as stereotypes. You’re making assumptions that non travellers don’t take shoes off, or go and help themselves to good in other peoples houses, or have ‘bad habits’ that you don’t want your own kids exposed to! I e never had anything but respectful relationships with travellers I’ve known but the way you’re talking about non travellers is just as bad. How does that help?

food, not good, sorry!

@SergeantWrinkles I haven’t stereotyped at all. Maybe you should re read what I said in the context I implied. I never said gorgers- non travellers don’t take their shoes off or help themselves or even that they live a certain way. I said the reason why my mum didn’t want me around other peoples homes is because she didn’t want me exposed to any of that stuff and no one really knows what goes on behind closed doors. I didn’t say the reason why she didn’t want me to go round non travellers homes is because I’d be exposed to that.

@SergeantWrinkles It was in fact anyone and everyone travellers included. I’m not implying that travellers don’t drink or do drugs at all. We all know there’s bad in all walks off life and this post wasn’t a way to insert hierarchy. I’m not sitting here in a bubble believing I am better than anyone else or was raised in ways that others weren’t regardless if they don’t come from the same culture. I think I’ve emphasised when I spoke on my work, the way I see people and would do anything to help anyone and treat them as my own family, none of the people I care for are travellers but I don’t treat them any less or think they have come from childhoods being exposed to all sorts. I don’t judge anyone regardless of their culture, ethnicity or race.

This is an interesting thread, thank you. What would you say is the difference between Romany gypsy and Irish traveller cultures?

So many horrible comments. Its not very polite or well mannered.
Many non traveller parents especially old fashioned ones are not happy with mixed marriages. Not just traveller families.
My own mother and I were much reviled for a) me being illegitimate and b) her going on to have a mixed race marriage to my stepfather in the 60' and 70's.
All of which is quite normal now.

Oh come on, the OP explained perfectly well that she was looking to address the stereotype.

An interesting post, OP, and you do indeed sound like a good person.

OP I’d love to know more about your mothers childhood it must have been very hard living in a horse drawn caravan?

OP, I was married to someone from the travelling showman community. Different to gypsy/roma/Irish I know but often mistaken for the same 'type'. My 'DH' couldn't read or write when I met him. I taught him. They went to school but due to all the travelling, missed most of it as from a young age they were expected to help out on the fair. I remember his DM/DF being very strict morally and very house/trailer proud. They were very disappointed their son married a flattie. Lol. I took him away but we both helped out on big events or when needed. It was a very interesting way of life, to me as an outsider. I will always defend against the stereotype.

Sexual abuse in homes is not the norm. The fact that you are so concerned about it suggests that you grew up in a culture where it is normal. All kinds of abuse are more prevalent in cultures where education is minimised, especially for girls. Even more so in isolation. That's partly why they are the norm in wider society. People aren't down on travellers about isolating women and children because we are snobby. It's because perpetuates cycles of abuse and impoverishes people's lives.

@TT0107 I agree with not trusting anyone, it’s the safest way to protect children.

I’m interested in your comment about removing kids before going to high school so that the other children’s bad habits don’t rub off on them.

What bad habits / behaviour is this referring to?

@guestsareinvited Sexual abuse goes on more than you’d imagine. The fact I’m so concerned shows how good of a job my mum done. I am concerned about it quite rightly and I am ott about protecting my kids in that regard. I don’t trust anybody and never will and since my kids were little I’ve spoken to them about the dangers of the world. Why would anyone take that risk with their kids or just be naive in thinking sexual abuse is common but not that common. It is. Once again traveller women and children are not isolated.

Why don’t you pull into a traveller site and actually go see the lifestyle for yourself and ask questions. Travellers don’t pull their kids from school and then isolate them from life, forcing the girls to cook and clean. They live by old traditional values, I say they and not I because as I’ve said I live a very ordinary life now. The man predominantly goes to work and the woman will stay home looking after the home and children. She isn’t treated as a slave and it’s denied an education. If she chose to not marry then she can choose not to. If she wanted to go college or uni then she can. It’s not forced. The tv shows are largely exaggerated.

Yes, I think its weird to take off your shoes and I would find that rude. I find socked and bare foot walking around a home creepy. What is polite here is cultural and how you were brought up, I was brought up with manners by strict parents but there shoes off would be considered rude.

@ModestlyPrudent Just generally other ways which travellers will mostly divert their kids from. Again I’m not stereotyping non travellers, I’m saying that travellers want to keep their children within their own culture and values and once children reach the age of starting high school they will start picking up things from other children. They just like to know the company their children keep so we all would normally be with cousins or family in general. This post is an example when I’ve had people comment saying that the way my mum raised me is weird because she raised us to always take our shoes off, not touch other people’s things being a curious kid, or that because my mum didn’t trust anybody in terms of sexual abuse it means it happens within my culture. Even little things like once kids get to high school some start smoking peer pressures and things, this has always been the case through generations of course but it’s something travellers just don’t want their kids to be around so they just keep them within the community. If there was a traveller child living on the same site who was smoking they wouldn’t want their children round that child either so it’s not a traveller against gorger (non traveller) thing. It’s just harder to know what your child is being exposed to once they’re in high school

@QueenofDestruction Ok, you’d find it rude if someone asked should they take their shoes off and I’d find it rude if someone walked straight into my home without asking. It’s fine everyone has different ways. I was never comparing which way is the right way or best

Interesting.

Why gorger? What does that mean?

@TT0107 also you write well, what age did you leave school? And where did you meet your DH?

Gorger? Derivative of what pls?

@ModestlyPrudent A gorger is someone who isn’t a traveller. It’s just the language. I would only use the term when speaking with family about someone, like “He’s with a gorger girl now”, I’d never refer directly to someone as a gorger. I guess it’s the same as a Nigerian saying he’s with a white (oyibo) woman but they wouldn’t call you directly white woman as it’s rude. My youngest daughter is half Nigerian hence why I used that nationality. I left school when I was 15. But thankyou

It doesn't show that your mum did a good job, it suggests that you are from a community where sexual abuse is relatively common, and you frame it as your mum having to defend against it. Which doesn't mean it doesn't exist elsewhere. That level of distrust outside a community is controlling and isolating.

I regularly meet travellers. We have a large community a mile away. My child went to school with traveller kids. There is no way I would wander in and start asking random questions - I think that would be rude and condescending. I don't know if there are threats - certainly the police are there a lot. I've never seen a TV show about travellers, so I can't compare. My experiences are all in person.

The women never speak, not even hello, and never go out alone. I find the constant hustle from traveller men exhausting. I admire it, because I hate doing it, but it's really tiring when someone haggles for stuff you aren't even selling, constantly, one thing after another, before you've finished the last one. I find the treatment of animals to be severely lacking and there is a lot of flagrant disregard for very basic rules and norms. Some things don't matter, like doing the school run in your pyjamas. And some things do, like parking on the yellow zig zags, not putting children in car seats and littering. It's pretty antisocial, illegal and how you can justify not letting a child sleep over somewhere because of a possible (but very unlikely and not specific) risk of sexual assault and then drive them around without a seatbelt on is complete proof that this isolation is nothing to do with children's best interests. It's to do with perpetuating cycles of access to women and children to exploit and that's framed as 'protect and provide'. And it's as old as time.

The man predominantly going to work and the women staying at home raising the children IS isolating. Schools and workplaces allow exposure to different cultural norms, not just 'bad habits'. And while of course some habits are bad, the worst of all is realising there is another way of life. Or 'disobediance' Women quickly stop tolerating that if they are exposed to alternatives, unless their access is limited by pretending people outside the community are sexual predators (which is how you are bringing your children up. Protection from a threat by isolation where the threat is manufactured is not protection. Its control) And by not engaging in education, young people are deprived of the qualifications and skills needed to make a life elsewhere, and of the chance to make a comparison by seeing other people's homes and realising that what they have been told by their elders isn't necessarily the case. And suppose a girl does decide she isn't going to stay home? What's she going to do? None of the girls even go to high school and they boys rarely get GCSEs. That's really powerful and very limiting. Especially for girls.

Interesting thread OP.

I'm just wondering, if you only stick amongst yourselves, how does that widen the gene pool?

I'm not judging, just curious.

Oh, and as for incest occurring "in most families" I call bullshit.

Traveller girls can choose to go into further education or employment if they want but in most cases they don’t want to.

But why would they want to if they don't see other women in their community doing it? Who are their role models to further their education?

@guestsareinvited I can’t even reply to you because you’re so arrogantly small minded it’s quite funny. I worry about sexual abuse but yet drive my kids round without car seats? Just listen to yourself rambling on, it’s nothing but projecting every traveller stereotype which just shows you’re small minded and ignorant. You continue to argue with a traveller about the traveller way of life despite being told you are wrong, maybe even delusional at this point. Travellers steal, so do gorgers. Travellers break the law, so do gorgers. There’s bad in every culture. I’ve already said I didn’t make this post to put travellers on a pedestal and I’m still not. You’re spewing every negative narrative with travellers that they are bad, all completely bad and I’m saying they are just as good as they are bad. You sound mad tbh. The girls will become disobedient if they are exposed to alternatives? Imagine saying this to someone from a Muslim background about their culture, because they have high expectations and standards for their daughters it must mean that everyone who shares the same religion/ culture is forcing abhorrence against women. For the last time, traveller women are not isolated and hidden from society or enslaved to be maids and servants to their husbands. Pure ignorance honestly. If you would have said you’re basing your opinion on things you’ve seen with travellers like pulling up and then leaving masses of rubbish and fly tipping then I would say yes there is a lot who do that but there is just as many who wouldn’t dream of that. But you are posting a load of rubbish about traveller women essentially being enslaved and not allowed to see outside of their imprisoned lenses when you know nothing, you’ve never been in that community to witness anything of the sort so don’t comment your ignorant views as fact. There is just as many gorgers who mistreat animals for the travellers who do. It’s not all travellers. I can tell you no one had horses kept in better conditions than us. Speaking on me and my family personally. So don’t say travellers as a whole do this and that.

@suburberphobe As I’ve stated my youngest child is mixed race, her dad is black so clearly I haven’t stuck amongst my own, as with many other travellers. It’s very common for travellers to marry and have kids with non travellers nowadays. I also never said incest occurs in most families, I said sexual abuse happens more than people like to believe. It is a fact however that children are more likely to be abused by a family member or close friend than a random person which is why I mentioned that part. My views on treating everybody as a potential predator to my children has nothing to do with knowing about or seeing sexual abuse happen within my own community. Treating everybody as = keeping my children away from situations where it could potentially happen, no sleep overs or going over to people’s homes without me being there.