AIBU not to let my mum come and 'help' when the baby is born?

[SarahAndQuack]

I'm not being unreasonable, am I? I

I'm 7 months pregnant, single mum by choice. I do not have an enormous support network but I do have multiple friends/family members who've offered help in the immediate period after the baby is born. My mum, who is 70, keeps steamrollering me with insistance she will come up to 'look after' me. I have repeatedly said while I understand she'd love to come and see the baby, I do not need or want her to come to look after me. I think we have hit crunch time.

I have a difficult relationship with my mum, who is pretty awful to me; it is (very, very partially) redeemed by the fact that when my ex (female) was pregnant with DD (9) and when DD was tiny, she was surprisingly thoughtful and good. A year ago, we arranged to go on holiday together. We've just got back, and woah, was it a mistake. I was apprenehsive because both my brothers had had incidents of our parents badly overstepping with their children this past year. This holiday made me feel I really don't want either parent (but it'd be my mum) around immediately after the baby is born, because if this holiday is anything to go by, she thinks 'looking after me' would be carte blanche to be an absolute controlling nightmare. Reasons (minor and grating to more major):

There is a constant, low-level undermining. Some of this is framed as jokes and some of it as flares of temper, but it's never excused. Examples of jokes would be, I mentioned in passing that my NCT group had been talking about our different careers and someone commented on an aspect of mine, and my mum instantly giggled and said 'be careful - they might believe you really do that job!' They've started doing it with my daughter too - big grins while they tell her how naughty she is or what a pain she is, and while it sounds as if it could be family banter, it's done in a way that isn't funny, and when I tell them so (repeatedly), they take no notice.

There are moments when they are disproportionately angry to be contradicted. Eg., we went round a museum with my DD. She was excited by part of it and wanted to dash and look, and my dad wanted to read and explain every display to her (she can read). I said, thinking it was no big deal, 'it doesn't matter if she doesn't understand everything'. My mum snapped, furiously, 'yes, it does matter!' They really wanted to explain everything to her in detail and were genuinely offended that she was interested in working things out for herself. I have memories of them doing this when I was a child and it was deadly dull - we'd spend hours while they tediously extracted every grain of what they considered to be educational content from an experience, with no interest in seeing what I thought of it. I let DD do her own thing and they were manifestly seething about it - it wasn't just a minor annoyance to be brushed off. This sort of thing happened repeatedly, whenever DD or I wanted to do something slightly different from what they imagined was 'right,' even if it was getting a drink for a tired child or me saying I didn't want to walk further.

During the holiday, my lovely neighbour rang to say our cat had been hit by a car; she was taking it to the emergency vets. DD was understandably upset (so was I!), and we got an awkward 'sorry' from my parents who then began discussing the way rabbits zig-zagged over the road in front of their car (?!). Neighbour subsequently rang to say the cat had died at the vet's; my parents saw me take this call and didn't react. A couple of days later I commented to my mum that DD was finding it hard, and my mum said in surprise 'oh, did the cat die?' and then moved on. In the car, they nearly hit a pheasant and started a conversation about they're silly birds and I wonder why they get hit so often? I had to tell them to stop, and again, they were totally surprised it might be upsetting or inappropriate.

The last straw was my mum suddenly asked if she was insured to drive my car (I'm insured on theirs, for various reasons). I said no. She said 'it might be useful'. Not wanting to be rude (her driving is awful and there's absolutely no need for her to drive my car), I said I thought she might find it tricky to drive (she hates swapping cars and finds it extremely difficult). She shouted, angrily, 'well you will find I HAVE to be!' It is clear this is part of her thinking she will come up to 'look after' me and a baby. I repeated that there was absolutely no need; I don't plan to need someone driving my car and I have plans for when the baby is born.

I really think their behaviour is batshit. But it's so hard to know because you could 'explain away' so much of it if you saw just that little bit in isolation. My mum clearly imagines I'm going to call her in labour and she'll drive up; I've said repeatedly I don't intend to do this. But would I be unreasonable to get the birth out of the way and then tell her a time she can visit, afterwards, making clear it's a visit not 'coming to help'.

Definitely not unreasonable! You’re going to have to be firm - grey rock her. Don’t entertain any suggestions of her coming to yours, don’t let her in if she turns up. She needs some major boundaries setting!

Do you have someone who can give you some support - a friend or neighbour? You might manage by yourself, but you might want someone on hand in case you need help at home.

YANBU , your mum sounds toxic and not what you need after giving birth.
I'd give her minimum information about birth dates and arrangements.
You don't need to tell her when you go into labour.
She didn't care about your cat dying because she has no empathy.

YANBU. Even if your mum is the loveliest person on the planet and you had a great relationship, the period immediately after birth is tricky. Your hormones will be all over the place. You are in hyper defensive mode.

I didn't want anyone except ds' dad near us. I wanted to rip the arms off anyone else who came near. I couldn't help it and was very rude to the health visitor who thankfully understood. It wore off after a couple of weeks.

The first week or so is about what YOU want. You need to feel safe and relaxed and comfortable with your baby, and if that means telling your mum that you appreciate her offer but you'll see how you get on and let her know later, then that is definitely your choice. The same goes for everyone else. Definitely your choice.

Lock the door, ignore the bell, and make sure your dp understands what you need. Congratulations

I've repeatedly told her I'm ok for support and don't need it; she just keeps steamrollering. She clearly saw this holiday as a chance to demonstrate how she was expecting to do things. The idea - insert hollow laugh here - was that as I was pregnant, she'd 'look after' me a bit on holiday and do some things with DD. Instead I'm absolutely bloody shattered and she demonstrated she can't be trusted with DD.

I do have support, both friends and neighbours, and if something dire happened one of my brothers has very kindly said he and his wife would pitch in. I hope I wouldn't have to ask them, but I probably could.

Well, no DP here, which is I suppose the issue!

But thank you. What you're describing reassures me it's really not a good idea, because I feel quite defensive already.

I am quite a coping, practical sort of person and I don't generally panic; I have quite good contingency plans around the birth which my nice midwife has talked through with me and she doesn't think it sounds as if I'm under-supported despite not having a partner around. I think I'm just second guessing because, obviously, a lot of people do have partners, and obviously that makes it very much easier to refuse outside help.

The pheasant remarks were pretty usual, even given the context of your cat. Pheasants are a pain in the arse and they do kind of ask to be hit. They just stand there dopey. No wonder they’re easy to shoot as well.

Anyway, pheasants aside… I don’t think she sounds that bad but you clearly don’t get along which is fine. It’s entirely your choice who is there when your baby is born. All I’d say is you don’t know what level of support you’ll need till you’re actually in the thick of it alone. Last time you had a partner, this time you don’t and that will feel very different particularly since you didn’t give birth last time too. I wouldn’t shut her out entirely.

My mum is similar.

my brother lives in New Zealand and his wife was recently diagnosed with breast cancer.

my mum who is 80 was making plans to fly over there and “help” them. They don’t need her help and honestly she can’t do very much anyway as she is very frail and can’t walk far or do much. She has it fixed in her head that she is physically able and competent no matter how much the reality changes.

I found it invaluable that my mum came to stay and looked after me when I had my babies - she did the laundry and made meals and looked after my other children so that I could rest and recover and establish breastfeeding. But I suppose it depends on the relationship you have with your mum - if her presence is more of a stress than a help, you're not unreasonable to not want her there.

I know what pheasants are like; I'm quite happy eating them. I just thought, FGS, show a bit of empathy to a nine-year-old child here! If it'd be a one-off glitch I'd have understood; we can all do that.

And yes, I think you're right; this is my worry, that I just don't know how I will feel.

The thing is, I think my mum imagines she would do this.

But in reality, doing the laundry would involve her insisting on me showing her how to use my machine, throwing a strop because she wanted to do it right now and I was doing something totally irrelevant like trying to establish breastfeeding, then telling me she'd decided it'd be helpful to iron DD's polyester school shirts on max and they'd all burned. That's how she is.

It's not just being a bit useless/impractical - though she is - it's the fact that, when she does something actively unhelpful, she covers it up by having a tantrum. So you'd be constantly walking on eggshells waiting for her to blow up about how it was all the fault of the washing machine/the iron/ polyester, and getting offended.

I thought this week she might look after DD a bit - they'd initially said since I'm 7 months pregnant I might want the odd rest at the holiday house so they could take DD out alone. In practice they never offered this, and when we went out together, they were so chippy with DD I wouldn't have felt comfortable leaving her alone with them - they didn't seem to have any awareness that she might have opinions or feelings of her own.

Not unreasonable, no. Both my MIL and mum do some things similar to your description.

my kids are older now and its calmed down, a bit. With some distance I can see their behaviour comes from anxiety, which leads to them being controlling.

Some of that is completely out of kilter. As the grandma you are NOT in control, as it is not your baby. Some of them don't seem to be able to get their head around this. I guess it does feel like other big moments when your children become independent, walking to school alone the first time.

Anyway, my MIL was genuinely worried that I / we were doing it wrong, and so like the trip you described she had her own detailed plans for how a day visiting us with a newborn would go to make sure it addressed her priorities.

If I expressed my own needs and acted to fulfil them, she would get cross or critical or sometimes actually try to stop me (you don't need to buy that bottle of water because there is a cafe at the top of the hill) because I'd upset her plans to manage her anxieties.

it is very selfish. But also very un-self aware. They don't know they are anxious and being controlling as they've externalised all of that as 'helping you'. So then they get angry if you say 'no thank you'.

Yes keep them at a firm distance. My mum has specific anxieties around birth, so for the second one I told her a due period later than my actual (and it freaked her out I wouldn't state 'a date' - I told her the hospital had moved away from that as people overly fixate on it - because she wanted a date to plan her anxiety around!).

It actually worked out great, because we told her DC2 had safely arrived before she had revved herself up to worry about it, and it saved me several weeks of her calling 'to see how I was' which was actually her offloading her anxiety about my baby's arrival onto me.

Grey rock, boundaries.

Sometimes its not worth saying 'no I won't do that' just say mmm hmmm and then don't do it when the time comes.

Ultimately you are in control, not them - and that's exactly what they are struggling with.

Thanks @CatsRock. What you say about anxiety is really useful and makes total sense. I think it is definitely to do with not having understood they're not in control. My brothers both deal with this quite a bit too - we've had conversations about it (both me with my brothers and each of us individually with our parents), but even if you address the issue directly with some varient on 'we get that you are worried about what is happening with [grandchild], but [grandchild] is our child and we have to do it our way/make our own mistakes/whatever,' they cannot seem fully to comprehend that there might be situations where it's simply not their decision to make.

I think probably you are right that just not doing things when the time comes, is the best approach. I have tried both very clear 'no, I don't need that' statements and non-comittal 'mmm hmm' and it's obvious both of them see these as irrelevances to be pushed past. I feel a bit dishonest just not saying anything, but I take the point that it's maybe necessary now.

If you’ve not given birth before and are also single it’s really hard to appreciate how much help you need. What if you have a c section? You can’t even get yourself out of bed without huge effort and then to have to feed and change a baby 8-10 times a night…we had to have my partner wake up every couple of hours with me to hand me the baby to feed and then to wait to change the nappies after each feed. We were both ridiculously shattered and had to ask one of our parents to come and stay and look after everything else like cooking food for us and cleaning etc.

parents are difficult and set in their ways. However tend to pitch up no questions asked when needed. We were really unrealistic what help we needed.

No, my parents don't pitch up no questions asked!

DP had an emergency section and it was very rough. I am conscious of that, and how hard it was. DD was quite ill and tube fed for a bit, and then we had to feed her on a two-hour schedule for ages and she was losing a lot of weight, and it wasn't fun. I do keep trying to think how I would manage that on my own and I am (sensibly, I think!) scared about it.

Sounds like my mother. It isn’t actually help it’s about getting what she wants dressed up as a favour. So not only does she get her own way you have to be grateful for it too.

After you have given birth you do not want anyone who causes you emotional distress near you. I was thrilled my Mum came for 2 weeks after each baby. She took over all cleaning, all laundry and cooked us all lovely home cooked meals. She took older DC to school and collected them. She took older DC to some of their activities whilst DH took them to others. My Mum spent very little time with new baby. When she went back home my house was shining and spotless from all the cleaning. My freezer had lots of meals I could pull out, defrost and put on oven like fish pies, cottage pie, Bolognese, and pasties and apple pies with her home made pastry. If your Mum is like this then you want her to be supporting you.

She seems absolutely incapable of being supportive and reasonable and when you give her an inch, she always takes a mile.

If she brings nothing positive to your life and to your daughter's life, don't continue with the relationship out of a sense of guilt and obligation. She sounds narcissistic and overbearing and, rather than removing stress after you give birth, she will make everything more stressful and difficult and will ruin your post-partum experience.

You need to tell her that you don't want her to come and stay with you after the birth and, depending on her reaction, you may need to choose the apocalyptic option of going completely no contact with her and your dad.

I made sure that DS2 in particular was not exposed to PIL on his own because they just didn’t ‘get’ him and their behaviour towards him could be concerning. One incident in particular when he was about 10 when we’d invited them for part of our holiday was awful. He was worrying about whether he could have plain food in a restaurant where everything was advertised as being covered in sauce and there was a lot of tut tutting going on about ‘fussiness’ which was just making the situation worse. The very next day FIL actually said there was nothing he liked on a very extensive menu. I remember looking at DH very pointedly.

So I learned that they couldn’t cope with DS and it was just better to make sure we were always there for him when with them. If I’d had a baby to deal with it that would have been tricky, I agree.

It's not unreasonable to not want your mum there. She sounds a lot like what my mum was like!
But you do need a real plan for if you have a c section. This might make her leave you alone 😂 You just won't be mobile enough if you're fully alone for a few days. There are nannies you can pay for after the birth , for example.

Your mum sounds fantastic. Mine is refusing to offer any help at all because I have said I don’t want her with me during labour (not I don’t want her coming to the hospital after baby is born, but I don’t want her in the room as I am giving birth). Wish more mothers were like yours.

Geez it’s only help if you need or want it !
Keep your circle small, and comfortable. Tell her afterwards when you’re ready. Use this fabulous opportunity to set boundaries.

Tbh your mum doesn’t sound that bad, they wanted to educate your DD at the museum which I understand is boring for some. None of your examples sound that bad. I completely agree with the pheasants conversation that is pretty standard, in our car there’s always talk of how stupid they are when we see one walk in the road. They’re all small things and you’re building them all up to make something bigger than it is. Is that because you want justification to say it’s ok to not want your mum there after the birth? You don’t need any excuses if you’d be more comfortable alone then you tell them that

But would you have had that pheasant conversation in front of a child who had just found out her cat had been hit by a car?

No, definitely not.
You will need some help, I’ll never forget the tiredness and pain. I’m a high energy person, I was convinced I’d be fine.
I couldn’t wait for family to arrive that week, DH was great but terrified as the baby was tiny.
Best of luck. Congratulations 🥳

I know she doesn't sound bad with each individual example - I guess what I'm trying to get at is that it's all of these things, repeatedly, that get me down (and make me worry about DD).

It's not the fact they want to educate DD - it's the fact that she was interested and curious, but they were angry because they wanted to read aloud to her and do it 'their' way. If she had been, say, whinging 'ooh granny, museums are boring!' I would have told her she was being cheeky and encouraged her to listen. But she wasn't. She was genuinely interested in the exhibits and wanted to see what was there. It's the inflexibiltiy of 'our way or no way' and the level of anger about it that bothers me.

Similar ... yes, I get that we all talk about daft pheasants, but if you had been asked to stop talking about animals being hit by cars once already, and you'd failed to realise a child was upset at the loss of a pet, wouldn't you be mortified the second time when a comment like that slipped out? I would be. Even if I were not an animal person, and I were internally rolling my eyes, I'd assume if a child is upset, I could be the bigger person and apologise.