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Another child killed by a dog...

900 replies

tnorfotkcab · 09/04/2026 22:08

Another poor child is killed by a dog.... We already know this is an XL Bully, don't even have to wait for confirmation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce35zkl9dg3o

A Google street view of Hardale Grove. It is a residential cul-de-sac with cars parked on the pavement.

Child dies in Redcar dog attack, police say

Police remain at the scene in Dormanstown, where one dog was destroyed earlier.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce35zkl9dg3o

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
SerendipityJane · 11/04/2026 17:26

TwoSwannits · 11/04/2026 17:14

I can't. But what does that have to do with this thread? How is making comparisons between the risk factors around alcohol and the risk factors around cannabis, and any supposed double standards around legality in any way relevant to your assertion that all dogs should be banned?

I genuinely don't have a clue about what conclusions I should be drawing from that. Confused

You said we don't make policy on the basis of evidence. That may be true of some things, but clearly it isn't true of this thing.

I said the UK doesn't do evidence based policy.

You said it did, and put forward an instance.

I demonstrated that there are equally opposing instances (thus supporting my assertion).

You tried changing the subject.

I think that's how it happened.

Now if you said the UK does policy based evidence, I'd agree with you.

sunnydisaster · 11/04/2026 17:28

Lorrymum · 11/04/2026 15:50

Sadly, a nineteen year old woman has now been killed by a dog.

Really sad. Just seen this on the bbc website.

BackToLurk · 11/04/2026 17:32

SerendipityJane · 11/04/2026 17:22

Personally I think the main problem is the blurring of working dogs and pets.

Dogs evolved as working dogs first and foremost. There is no way our ancestors were around a fire when a wolf slunk in and went "You know what ? Give that a perm and our species is saved !".

If I wrote dictionaries, I would make part of the definition of "pet" as "An animal kept for the owners pleasure that is incapable of killing a human.".

Who's with me ?

I think there are multiple problems there are irresponsible owners, arrogant owners, entitled owners. Theres no requirement that owners know what they’re doing. There’s lack of regulation of dog training. There’s toxic masculinity. There are idiots.

ClaudiaWankleman · 11/04/2026 17:32

Whosthetabbynow · 11/04/2026 17:13

Please get a grip

The point that seems to have passed you by, but was really quite effectively delivered is that 'get rid of all dogs' is the opinion that belongs to an owner who needs to get a grip.

It's a viewpoint that leaves absolutely no nuance, which is almost a universal marker of a bad opinion. We aren't as absolute about killing people as you seem to be about getting rid of dogs.

EdithStourton · 11/04/2026 17:34

BackToLurk · 11/04/2026 17:11

Sure, there will be some individuals who will be intentionally or unintentionally biased, but that’s not the full picture. There are few if any groups or people working professionally with dogs who think that breed specific legislation or the like is effective. I suppose they could all be in the pockets of Big Pitbull, but it seems unlikely.

I said upthread that I'm increasingly coming to think that BSL isn't effective: you ban one power breed and another arises to take its place.

The point I was making, though, was that there are people who will want to underplay the risk posed by certain breeds and types of dogs. You're better off being clear about what a breed's predispositions are.

Boomer55 · 11/04/2026 17:38

Littlewrenn · 11/04/2026 16:23

Yes all breeds may have the occasional aggressive individual but only some breeds are literally designed to kill. These breeds and their crosses should be heavily legislated against but I can see all breeds being equally affected by any future legislation. The minority ruining it for the majority again.

It's alright for the XL bully twats, they never really wanted a dog anyway, just a symbol, they'll just go and get a new exhaust for their shit car or a new phone or pair of trainers instead.

I hate to say it as I grew up on a council estate but maybe all dogs should be completely banned from all social housing to limit the problem. I lf it was enforced, I bet it would make a difference to the number of attacks.

Why just social housing? Out of control dogs, any breeds, from any class of housing, should be removed and destroyed.

BackToLurk · 11/04/2026 17:43

EdithStourton · 11/04/2026 17:34

I said upthread that I'm increasingly coming to think that BSL isn't effective: you ban one power breed and another arises to take its place.

The point I was making, though, was that there are people who will want to underplay the risk posed by certain breeds and types of dogs. You're better off being clear about what a breed's predispositions are.

I agree up to a point, but that needs to be based on facts. So we see ‘bullies’ as a whole ‘are bred to kill people’. And that becomes ‘that’s what they’re predisposed to do’, but they aren’t. Even dogs specifically bred to fight are not bred to fight or kill humans - and they often have to be goaded quite brutally to fight other dogs because it doesn’t ’come naturally’.

I think if we move away from facts and evidence we end up with polarised, entrenched views on both sides that don’t actually solve any problems.

EdithStourton · 11/04/2026 18:35

@BackToLurk
and they often have to be goaded quite brutally to fight other dogs because it doesn’t ’come naturally’.
I don't think that's true. I listened to a podcast once which included a bloke who had grown up in a dog-fighting environment. He was pretty clear that the dogs that were fought, and were bred, were the ones that wanted to fight.

Some breeds are more dangerous than others (though not every dog within a breed will express breed traits). I have a breed which is dangerous for wildlife if it's not kept under control. It's notorious for a very high prey-drive and for going self-employed hunting across the countryside. I'm not going to tell Joe Bloggs that yeah, sure, they're all sweeties who will make lovely pets, because that's not fair to him or to the dogs. They are very human-social, but they need a lot of training, exercise and mental fulfilment before you can enjoy them as pets. They're also very dog social because that's been bred into them for generations, because hunting dogs that fight other hunting dogs are a complete liability.

A breed with dog fighting in its genetics is going to have a different behavioural profile. Many dogs within that breed will make perfectly fine pets, but others - the ones who want that bite-and-shake outlet and don't get it, who respond to squeaks and wails as if they're the noises made by animals, who have a low arousal threshold - are much more likely to bite. Couple that with massive and very strong jaws and you have a catastrophe on your hands.

People need to understand the behavioural package that comes with certain breeds. Dachshunds and terriers are likely to bark (and chase mice etc); retrievers, even after generations of being bred for show, will often be very keen to retrieve, and so on.

BackToLurk · 11/04/2026 18:53

EdithStourton · 11/04/2026 18:35

@BackToLurk
and they often have to be goaded quite brutally to fight other dogs because it doesn’t ’come naturally’.
I don't think that's true. I listened to a podcast once which included a bloke who had grown up in a dog-fighting environment. He was pretty clear that the dogs that were fought, and were bred, were the ones that wanted to fight.

Some breeds are more dangerous than others (though not every dog within a breed will express breed traits). I have a breed which is dangerous for wildlife if it's not kept under control. It's notorious for a very high prey-drive and for going self-employed hunting across the countryside. I'm not going to tell Joe Bloggs that yeah, sure, they're all sweeties who will make lovely pets, because that's not fair to him or to the dogs. They are very human-social, but they need a lot of training, exercise and mental fulfilment before you can enjoy them as pets. They're also very dog social because that's been bred into them for generations, because hunting dogs that fight other hunting dogs are a complete liability.

A breed with dog fighting in its genetics is going to have a different behavioural profile. Many dogs within that breed will make perfectly fine pets, but others - the ones who want that bite-and-shake outlet and don't get it, who respond to squeaks and wails as if they're the noises made by animals, who have a low arousal threshold - are much more likely to bite. Couple that with massive and very strong jaws and you have a catastrophe on your hands.

People need to understand the behavioural package that comes with certain breeds. Dachshunds and terriers are likely to bark (and chase mice etc); retrievers, even after generations of being bred for show, will often be very keen to retrieve, and so on.

Again, to a degree. People who want a dog that fights will breed already aggressive dogs that fight, but they will still be goaded, undersocialised and trained using bait dogs. They won’t ’just fight’. In addition, lots, if not most, of the ones in the general population are there because they don’t fight. If you want an aggressive dog you dump the ones that aren’t or the puppies of the ones that aren’t. I don’t disagree about being aware of general traits, and hyper arousal is certainly one. Again bullies tend to be very sociable to humans, so the often repeated claim that they are naturally aggressive toward them doesn’t really hold water. That’s the sort of thing I’m talking about. Yes they are strong. Yes they have strong jaws. But so do other breeds.

Personally I’d have tighter regulations and licensing on all dogs, with the possibility of stricter requirements for some breeds, As much to protect the dogs, who are often undersocialised, but I’d probably include other breeds beyond bullies.

MorangoDoNordeste · 11/04/2026 19:04

Lifeisaneducation · 11/04/2026 14:47

Apparently, a lurcher type of dog was responsible for this attack.
I have never thought of lurchers as aggressive. 😲

A lurcher is half-greyhound or whippet, but the other half can be anything...including a bullie. Bull lurchers are quite popular for illegal game coursing, I believe

OonaStubbs · 11/04/2026 19:08

There are many animals that we do not allow people to keep as pets because they are dangerous. Lions, tigers and bears for instance. It wouldn't be that drastic a measure to add dogs to the list.

ZoeCM · 11/04/2026 19:09

People will find a way to dance around any conclusion, no matter how obvious. XL bullies are only one of hundreds of dog breeds in the UK, yet they're responsible for a disproportionate number of dog-related deaths. And there are still people who say they're no more dangerous than any other breed.

Children are starting school without ever having opened a book (or even seen a parent open a book), thinking they should be swiped like tablets. And there are still people who deny that screen use is a factor in the increasing number of children being diagnosed with behavioural problems.

TIMs have broken records in women's sport, and have made staggering jumps from where they ranked when they competed against males, while TIFs who were successful against women have provided no competition against men. And there are still people who say this is a coincidence, and the advantages of a male body are wiped out by cross-sex hormones.

People just stick their heads in the sand.

FishingInTheRiversOfLife · 11/04/2026 23:01

According to a local Facebook group, the mother was in the home with her baby, and left a door open as it was warm. Two offleash dogs (currently described as pocket bullies) ran into the house and attacked the baby.

Tragic. That poor family. Makes it worse for the parents than it being their own dog/choice/risk.

purpleme12 · 11/04/2026 23:16

Wow

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 11/04/2026 23:21

FishingInTheRiversOfLife · 11/04/2026 23:01

According to a local Facebook group, the mother was in the home with her baby, and left a door open as it was warm. Two offleash dogs (currently described as pocket bullies) ran into the house and attacked the baby.

Tragic. That poor family. Makes it worse for the parents than it being their own dog/choice/risk.

Heart breaking 😭

purpleme12 · 11/04/2026 23:23

So do we actually know what breed these recent ones were?

Gostraight2hellnowtrump · 11/04/2026 23:27

I am so appalled and horrified about this update on the poor baby who was killed.
The owner of the dog will I expect try to blame the parents for the death.

FishingInTheRiversOfLife · 11/04/2026 23:32

purpleme12 · 11/04/2026 23:23

So do we actually know what breed these recent ones were?

pocket bullies (or small staffies/similar small bully breed, according to the neighbours).

FishingInTheRiversOfLife · 11/04/2026 23:35

"One woman, who witnessed the moment the dog was shot, said: 'Earlier in the day, my friend had told me that a baby girl had been attacked.
'I had seen a brindle looking bully type dog running around Hardale and it wasn't until I saw all the ambulances that I thought, something is going on.
'Two hours later I came home to find the road was cordoned off and witnessed the grey and white dog get shot.'
The neighbour added: 'They had to do what they had to do, the dog was loose.
'It was awful, it was distressing, but you just want to know what's going on.'
Another local who lives on the street where the tragedy happened said: 'One of the dogs tried to attack a neighbour but she jumped in her car.
'She heard someone screaming, and she tried to help, but the dog went for her, so she had to jump back in the car.
'It's awful, absolutely awful. I don't know exactly what happened, but I would never leave a baby alone with a dog.
'It was a baby girl. She didn't live in the house. She was being looked after by a friend.
'It's absolutely tragic.'"

AcquadiP · 12/04/2026 00:05

purpleme12 · 11/04/2026 23:23

So do we actually know what breed these recent ones were?

Pocket Bullies

JanBlues2026 · 12/04/2026 00:07

MorangoDoNordeste · 11/04/2026 19:04

A lurcher is half-greyhound or whippet, but the other half can be anything...including a bullie. Bull lurchers are quite popular for illegal game coursing, I believe

I bet it is a bull lurcher

edit to add the attacks always start when the weather picks up and continues through the summer months

AcquadiP · 12/04/2026 00:38

Gostraight2hellnowtrump · 11/04/2026 23:27

I am so appalled and horrified about this update on the poor baby who was killed.
The owner of the dog will I expect try to blame the parents for the death.

It's horrific. The owner of the dogs doesn't have a leg to stand on and is facing a lengthy prison sentence. One or both dogs killed the baby girl which means he'll be charged with having a dog(s) dangerously out of control, which directly caused the baby's death. There are also two other instances of a dog or dogs being dangerously out of control. One of the dogs escaped through what must be a substantial gap in the fence and was running up and down the street in such an aggressive manner that armed police sought safety by climbing onto the roof of a vehicle before fatally shooting the dog. And one or both dogs bit a woman who was at the house in question. In law, the responsibility for all of this lies with the owner.

YourWinter · 12/04/2026 00:45

So there are conflicting comments quoted from local Facebook groups, the mother was at home with the baby and had left the door open, the off-lead dogs entered the house and one killed the baby… and separately, someone quoted as saying the baby didn’t live in the house where she was attacked, she was being looked after by a friend. They can’t both be correct.

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 12/04/2026 00:49

EdithStourton · 11/04/2026 16:56

I definitely don't hate dogs: I have two. I lived with probably a dozen different dogs over the course of my life.

But it's very easy, if you have an entrenched POV, or if your income depends on subscribing to a certain belief, and are writing an academic paper to end up - intentionally or otherwise - with slanted conclusions.

That’s very true

YeOldeGreyhound · 12/04/2026 00:49

OonaStubbs · 11/04/2026 19:08

There are many animals that we do not allow people to keep as pets because they are dangerous. Lions, tigers and bears for instance. It wouldn't be that drastic a measure to add dogs to the list.

Oh what a surprise to see you post that.