AIBU to think that passports are now UK ID cards by the back door?

[bellalula]

My eldest dd turned sixteen last year, and ever since she's had difficultly proving her identity for all sorts of things. She often uses the train to get home from college. At 16 they charge adult fares (fair enough). Tried to get her a young persons railcard for discounted fares, but you need photo id to get a railcard. They'll accept a passport or a driving licence. DD doesn't have either, she's never travelled abroad, and not intending to in the near future, so no travel need for a passport. She isn't old enough to drive a car, so no need for a driving licence either. And if she could drive, she probably wouldn't need a railcard anyway!

So we looked at getting her a provisional driving licence early, purely so she could get a railcard. You near enough need a passport to get a driving licence these days though, can't complete the application online without one, the only other way to to it is by posting off paper copies of documentation (original birth certificate, verified photo etc).

My own passport expired over 20 years ago, and I had to upgrade my paper driving licence 10 years ago, so I do have that as photo id for myself. That does seem to be accepted by most places. There's an open day at the nearby military base coming up this summer, my dc would love it. You have to apply for tickets in advance, and I think they do a draw because it's always over subscribed. But, for security purposes, they require passports as proof of identity and nationality for everyone over 16. It's not clear if they'll accept my 30 year old, expired passport, and my dd won't be able to get in at all.

DD got herself a part time waitressing job last year. Because she was under 16 they would accept birth certificate as id luckily. If she'd started there after turning 16 she'd have needed passport or driving licence.

So if you don't drive and don't travel abroad, you still have to buy a passport or driving licence just to be able to live and work in the UK? I mean it's basically compulsory, yet we're being charged for it as well.

Which of those do you think are wrong though?

Fair enough needing photo ID to get cheaper travel based on your age.
Provisional driving licence as you’ve said you don’t actually need a passport to get it. And driving licences are used as ID so it seems reasonable to require proper confirmation of ID in order to get one.
Security at a military base seems reasonable.
And showing proof of eligibility to work in the UK also seems reasonable.

I totally agree OP. And as always it disadvantages those with less money.
But every time the government has tried to bring in any form of ID card everyone screams "but privacy!"

Not really. You can buy a cheaper citizencard. I never would though because I travel and drive so it would be a pointless cost.

The government's Digital ID consultation is now live so suggest you feed into it

@ThanklessTask agree hence I am all for an ID card as an alternative option

Why doesn't she just get an ID card like CitizenCard or MyIDCard?

For eligibility to work (over 16) you can use a birth certificate plus government issued document / document from previous employer showing NI. So essentially a letter from HMRC or a payslip.

This is an accepted ID card costing less than a passport. https://www.citizencard.com/apply-for-a-uk-id-card-online

It makes sense to have tight controls for a military base.

The citizen cards are cheaper, but my daughter has one and hardly anyone accepts them.

She can’t have a driving licence (for medical reasons so can’t even apply for a provisional) and didn’t want to carry her passport everywhere so we got her a Citizen Card, and about 90% of places she goes won’t accept them.

She should get a 16-17 saver railcard instead of a 16-25 one. Then she can use her birth certificate.

Just get a provisional driving licence for her.
I dont drive never have and never will and i have one just for ID.

I’m struggling to understand why you/she doesn’t just sort this out and get the ID?

Proof that you can work in the UK is needed for any job, especially since Brexit.

I'd get the passport, OP. Cheaper while she's still under 18 (only 5 years rather than 10), then she can decide later if she wants to travel, get a driving licence, etc.

It's the 16 to 17 saver Railcard that we're trying to get, but it still needs a passport.

No it doesnt, you can select alternative Identity Document and upload a scan of a birth certificate. Have you not tried?

You need an adult passport from 16, not 18

How much does a passport cost?

Adult passports are from 16, not 18, so it'll cost £102. For something she doesn't need. My point is that you need to spend £102 on a passport in order to get a £35 Railcard. The passport cost will cancel out the savings from getting the railcard. You need a passport to get discounted rail fares, or to do just about anything else it seems. The government is jumping on organisations insisting on identity checks (fair enough), but then the only way anyone can prove their identity is by paying for the privilege.

As others have pointed out, most places refuse to accept citizen cards etc for identity purposes.

So my issue is that every time national identity cards comes up there's a public outcry against them (fair enough, I get why people don't want them). But instead we're being forced to use passports as a proof of identity, which was never their intended purpose, and we're having to pay just to exist. If the government needs us to have I'd cards, they should provide them for free, not force people to buy a passport when they don't need it for travel.

£10 a year. Great value. Get the passport.

It clearly states id requirements are: Proof of eligibility – you will need to provide proof that the cardholder is aged 16-17, please have Passport, Driving Licence or EEA National Identity Card ready.

From GWR website: You'll need to have the following when you apply:

• evidence of age - a valid UK driving licence, passport or national ID card

Nowhere says anything about birth certificate being acceptable. Where are you buying yours from?

Official railcard site
https://www.16-17saver.co.uk/

I’m not allowed to drive, for health reasons, so the easiest way of proving my ID is via a passport.

Can’t see the problem. 🤷‍♀️

I live in Germany where ID cards are legally required but we still have to pay for them. Still better than the UK as the cards are the size of a credit card and are accepted everywhere.

There is no such thing as free from the government, we pay through taxes. It seems a shame there isn't a voluntary id card, as lots of us would be happy to sign up.

How do you propose that people have their id and eligibility to work in the UK checked if not by passport and driving licence?

Get her the passport. She might not be planning any trips abroad right now, but she may in a couple of years!

For a 16 yr old I’d go down the provisional licence route so they have ID even if no interest in learning to drive. They all used a licence kept in phone case for ID in sixth form.

It sounds like for you and your daughter, the proposed ID card would be a benefit? How else would you suggest people prove who they are and where they are from? Sounds logical that these organisations can’t just take your word for it, they’ll need some sort of proof.