AIBU to think that passports are now UK ID cards by the back door?

[bellalula]

My eldest dd turned sixteen last year, and ever since she's had difficultly proving her identity for all sorts of things. She often uses the train to get home from college. At 16 they charge adult fares (fair enough). Tried to get her a young persons railcard for discounted fares, but you need photo id to get a railcard. They'll accept a passport or a driving licence. DD doesn't have either, she's never travelled abroad, and not intending to in the near future, so no travel need for a passport. She isn't old enough to drive a car, so no need for a driving licence either. And if she could drive, she probably wouldn't need a railcard anyway!

So we looked at getting her a provisional driving licence early, purely so she could get a railcard. You near enough need a passport to get a driving licence these days though, can't complete the application online without one, the only other way to to it is by posting off paper copies of documentation (original birth certificate, verified photo etc).

My own passport expired over 20 years ago, and I had to upgrade my paper driving licence 10 years ago, so I do have that as photo id for myself. That does seem to be accepted by most places. There's an open day at the nearby military base coming up this summer, my dc would love it. You have to apply for tickets in advance, and I think they do a draw because it's always over subscribed. But, for security purposes, they require passports as proof of identity and nationality for everyone over 16. It's not clear if they'll accept my 30 year old, expired passport, and my dd won't be able to get in at all.

DD got herself a part time waitressing job last year. Because she was under 16 they would accept birth certificate as id luckily. If she'd started there after turning 16 she'd have needed passport or driving licence.

So if you don't drive and don't travel abroad, you still have to buy a passport or driving licence just to be able to live and work in the UK? I mean it's basically compulsory, yet we're being charged for it as well.

So how do you suggest op that we keep things secure, fair etc.? We need to be able to prove who we are for good reason including voting, do you not vote? I had to show my drivers licence, I also needed my passport when I got my job, for my DBS, when I bought my house and so on. It’s essentially £10 a year for a passport, your dd needs to get herself one if you can’t afford it, perhaps some unofficial work like babysitting to earn the money

I don’t see the issue in just getting a passport. At some point she may go abroad

i also agree we need ID cards and would not have a problem carrying one.

She does need the passport though, and the cost of that passport can be justified over TEN years.

My mistake, I thought you could still get one for five years at 16.

If she is working, could she buy it herself? It's a tenner a year for ten years and she will find it opens doors and makes things a lot easier.

I had to renew my driving license and didn’t have a valid passport, I had to go in person to the postoffice to get a form, and then I had to pay more for the service.
im lucky I drive. But many don’t have both

Sometimes people have to prove their ID with photo ID. I've had to show my passport at all my adult jobs as part of proving I have the right to work in UK.

I don’t understand you saying she doesn’t need a passport… she very definitely does! A passport isn’t just for going abroad it also for proving your identity for a myriad of different reasons.

Citizens cards are rubbish and not accepted by many employers. It is pathetic that we can't have a nationally recognised ID card issued with our NI number.

You can get a provisional driving license at 15yrs 9mths (for a moped).
Don't need to actually learn to drive.

Why are you so sure that your dd will never want to travel? I do understand that they cost money (and so does travel) but for me it's high on the list of essentials to provide for my kids. We don't go abroad often, not even every year, but you're closing it off as an option completely. When she's at uni or working she might have friends organising a trip even just to Paris or Dublin and she won't be able to join them. There's a whole world out there beyond this island.

"If you don't have any of the above forms of ID, you can upload a scan of your birth certificate or a Government-approved PASS card instead. Please note that applications using these forms of ID will take a little longer to process."

https://www.16-17saver.co.uk/are-you-eligible/

Isnt that the point OP is making?

It no longer serves as just a passport then does it? It has become an ID card by default whether you need it as a passport or not and then you're forced to shell out over 100 quid to get it.

My mum has neither a driving licence or passport. I dread to think whats going to happen when she passes and I need ID of hers of some sort to sort out affairs. (I presume I'll need this sort of thing)

I thought provisionals were not accepted in most places though?

And a bit concerned to learn on this thread that citizenship cards are not accepted in many places as I normally recommend these for service users who cant afford passport

I'm not in the UK but it's much the same here. I don't drive and don't intend travelling overseas but I have a passport for ID. Just get the passport, she might well use it some time in the future.

It says a birth certificate is acceptable here:

https://www.gwr.com/your-tickets/railcards/16-17

in 'The small print' section.

Post Office does one too for £15
https://www.postoffice.co.uk/identity/pass-card

There's no consistency in that. The post office never used to accept them. Years ago, in the same week, I was able to board a domestic flight with a provisional driving licence but was not allowed to collect my parcel from the local sorting office with it. Madness.

I suspect that it is the individual places that choose not to accept citizen card, and / or the individual person doing the checking not being familiar with the cards themselves

Citizen card has an app that anyone can use to validate a Citizen card (and also other cards with the PASS logo)

If it’s bar security not accepting cards then it could be pointed out to them that Citizen card also bears the SIA logo - security staff need SIA accreditation to work, and ought to be able to recognise ID endorsed by their accreditors

Citizen card is not proof of the right to work, it’s proof of identity (and an NI alone isn’t either )
So it’s fair for an employer to not accept it as proof of suitability for employment

https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work

I've often thought we should have ID cards linked to our NHS No which we are allocated at or soon after birth and which remains with us for life and at a few specific points if someone becomes a citizen later etc.

There is a voluntary ID card - citizen card and also any other card bearing the PASS logo

I don't get the objections to ID cards. They are a great idea and other countries have them and they work well. If you object to them then perhaps you should also refuse to have a passport and driving licence, as they essentially fulfil the same purpose ( except not mandatory).

I am elderly and will never travel abroad again. I have a passport obtained purely for identification purposes. I've found its needed at solicitors, banks etc.

I’ve just applied for a passport for DBS purposes because I can’t cope with the repeated admin and a million pieces of paperwork.

If you get her a drivers licence take photo of front and back. If you change address you’ll need the code on the back of it. Helpful with youths who lose them too as can just do change of address to trusted family member with code.

YANBU. A child at my sons school couldn’t go on a school trip to an airport (not flying) as they didn’t have a passport so couldn’t prove identity!