AIBU to think that passports are now UK ID cards by the back door?

[bellalula]

My eldest dd turned sixteen last year, and ever since she's had difficultly proving her identity for all sorts of things. She often uses the train to get home from college. At 16 they charge adult fares (fair enough). Tried to get her a young persons railcard for discounted fares, but you need photo id to get a railcard. They'll accept a passport or a driving licence. DD doesn't have either, she's never travelled abroad, and not intending to in the near future, so no travel need for a passport. She isn't old enough to drive a car, so no need for a driving licence either. And if she could drive, she probably wouldn't need a railcard anyway!

So we looked at getting her a provisional driving licence early, purely so she could get a railcard. You near enough need a passport to get a driving licence these days though, can't complete the application online without one, the only other way to to it is by posting off paper copies of documentation (original birth certificate, verified photo etc).

My own passport expired over 20 years ago, and I had to upgrade my paper driving licence 10 years ago, so I do have that as photo id for myself. That does seem to be accepted by most places. There's an open day at the nearby military base coming up this summer, my dc would love it. You have to apply for tickets in advance, and I think they do a draw because it's always over subscribed. But, for security purposes, they require passports as proof of identity and nationality for everyone over 16. It's not clear if they'll accept my 30 year old, expired passport, and my dd won't be able to get in at all.

DD got herself a part time waitressing job last year. Because she was under 16 they would accept birth certificate as id luckily. If she'd started there after turning 16 she'd have needed passport or driving licence.

So if you don't drive and don't travel abroad, you still have to buy a passport or driving licence just to be able to live and work in the UK? I mean it's basically compulsory, yet we're being charged for it as well.

My objection to digital ID was that it would be digital ID, not a card.
Ay least the passport is a physical document and not on your phone.

I would have no problem with the ID card in general though.

Can’t she get a government ID ? The sort you get for voting if you don’t have a passport or driving licence?

I completely agree with you, OP. We are all being asked to show proof of ID all the time these days but there's no "one size fits all" ID that everyone has that is suitable for everything - ie. a national ID card as used in so many other countries. Why is there so much resistance?
FWIW I work in a library where we need proof of name and address to sign up new members so NOT a passport, as it has no address. Frustrating for people who don't drive. You can use a utility or council tax bill, of course, but weirdly no one has one of those on them just on the off chance they might need them, unlike, say, a national ID card.....

Hopefully your dd will be soon experiencing overseas travel. Buy her a passport!

But posters with one say it's not accepted at lots of places. It's no use if it's not accepted universally.

That is a different matter

Anyone is free to choose what forms of identity they accept, if they don’t recognise the difference between a valid one and a fake one then they won’t accept it - and also it can depend on what it is being used for (eg it is photographic proof of ID but not proof of right to work)

Citizen card have put in various measures to make it acceptable, it has a valid recognised application process, is recognised by the government, police and SIA security and has a verification app and for proof of age it has a selection of highlighted age ranges

If it is not accepted as proof of age to enter a bar etc, then that can be highlighted as an education matter (not as an argument at the door) SIA accredited security ought to accept it
There may of course be other reasons ID has not been accepted - such as not looking like the photo

Passport are £100 quite alot of money for an ID card purpose.

They last ten years, you can use them as ID for everything, and there's a very good chance the OPs DD will want to go abroad at some point in the next decade.

I think £10 a year is good value.

And so what?
It should have been done decades ago imo.

Agreed. I have no photo id

Get a free voter ID. Look for solutions, not problems, OP.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/voter-id?utm_source=search&utm_medium=paid-media&utm_campaign=ldn-voter_id_2026-google-search-na-na-phase_1&utm_source=ppc&utm_medium=paid-media&utm_campaign=en-voter_id-googleads-ppc-england-en-na-fy23/24&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23569035357&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv-LOBhCdARIsAM5hdKeO55GWK3T2srexIKxRqr0SrRrPXojYnrrCgksysOGzVMupLjEU20saApt5EALw_wcB

But those ‘ID purposes’ will crop up multiple times over the ten years it would be valid for. Not only for proof of age, but more importantly, proving her right to work, not to mention any holidays she may want to go on.

It’s a tenner a year. Getting ID as a teen is vital. The passport provides the ultimate version of ID. Basic stuff to provide imo.

I had neither for years and bought a citizen card when i was in my late teens to prove my age

Why don’t you think she’ll want to go abroad unless there is some drip feed coming? Just get her a passport.

I thought this the other day.

I was applying for a Zip Oystercard for my daughter. She needs it to get half price tube fares on tubes and London trains, and to prove her age for free travel on buses. I had to put in her passport details for them to do an age check.

What happens for kids who don’t have a passport? They need print off some sort of school verification form, get someone in management at their child’s school to sign it, then take it into the post office in person. All of which will need to be done by the parent during working hours - and I imagine it won’t be top of any school management team member’s inbox.

A passport is worth the cost especially if she is going to look for work. It is needed usually to prove eligibility to work and reside in the UK. My work wouldn’t even entertain someone without a passport as it’s a regulated industry.

My main problem with ID cards is it’s something I’d end up paying for, as someone who is childless with no benefits at all like UC top ups I end up paying for everything and living on less than £28k it gets wearing!

I think 10 a year for a passport is pretty good value.

I am Irish and along with the passport book we can also get a “passport card”. Means you can carry your id while your passport is safely at home.

but honestly o/p, get a passport. Not just for ID reasons, but it’s easier to get a first passport under 18, you don’t need as much documentation. Then renewals are way easier. So getting her one now will save a fair bit of hassle when she’s older.

why do you think she won’t travel abroad?

I have neither a passport nor a driving licence. I did look at citizen cards but they look to be an absolute waste of time. You can't just nip into a shop & buy a passport, it's a faff, especially when you've been married more than once - multiple certificates to send for. So it's not 'just' £100.
Had to visit another city to a passport office when one of my kids wanted one. An absolute pain (no, OBVIOUSLY I don't drive, otherwise I'd have a licence!) I always understood that provisional licences couldn't be used as proof of ID BECAUSE they are easy to get!
I've bought & sold houses in the last few years with no passport or driving licence, it seems to be the more minor things that people get all jobsworth about, as ever..

“My mum has neither a driving licence or passport. I dread to think whats going to happen when she passes and I need ID of hers of some sort to sort out affairs. (I presume I'll need this sort of thing)”
For sorting out the affairs of a person who has died you need a certificated copy of the death certificate, not their passport.
You get the death certificate from the registrar of births marriages and deaths and they cost a lot less than a passport.

I've never understood the problem with ID cards (virtual or otherwise).

I'm happy to comply with anything of that kind.

ID cards are used in most countries, it’s ridiculous that the uk doesn’t have them. Passports haven’t become id cards, they are having to be used given that there aren’t id cards.

Having to prove your identity makes sense, why shouldn’t you have to

While it works out at a tenner a year if you don't have the £100 now thats irrelevant

Anyway it seems from the links that the Railcard can be bought with a birth certificate so the practical problem has been solved

Save up and get her a passport. She may want to travel abroad with friends in the next few years.

I never understood the resistance to ID cards.

Do passports generate a lot of money for the government?

They just brought in the rule that dual nationals must use British passports to enter the U.K. meaning a lot of dual nationals will have had to renew their British passports. Before they might have just used other one. Like I did!!

Why is it a problem having ID cards? Never understood that.