AIBU to think that passports are now UK ID cards by the back door?

[bellalula]

My eldest dd turned sixteen last year, and ever since she's had difficultly proving her identity for all sorts of things. She often uses the train to get home from college. At 16 they charge adult fares (fair enough). Tried to get her a young persons railcard for discounted fares, but you need photo id to get a railcard. They'll accept a passport or a driving licence. DD doesn't have either, she's never travelled abroad, and not intending to in the near future, so no travel need for a passport. She isn't old enough to drive a car, so no need for a driving licence either. And if she could drive, she probably wouldn't need a railcard anyway!

So we looked at getting her a provisional driving licence early, purely so she could get a railcard. You near enough need a passport to get a driving licence these days though, can't complete the application online without one, the only other way to to it is by posting off paper copies of documentation (original birth certificate, verified photo etc).

My own passport expired over 20 years ago, and I had to upgrade my paper driving licence 10 years ago, so I do have that as photo id for myself. That does seem to be accepted by most places. There's an open day at the nearby military base coming up this summer, my dc would love it. You have to apply for tickets in advance, and I think they do a draw because it's always over subscribed. But, for security purposes, they require passports as proof of identity and nationality for everyone over 16. It's not clear if they'll accept my 30 year old, expired passport, and my dd won't be able to get in at all.

DD got herself a part time waitressing job last year. Because she was under 16 they would accept birth certificate as id luckily. If she'd started there after turning 16 she'd have needed passport or driving licence.

So if you don't drive and don't travel abroad, you still have to buy a passport or driving licence just to be able to live and work in the UK? I mean it's basically compulsory, yet we're being charged for it as well.

This. I think it's so sad that you are writing off your daughter like this. Do you not want her to travel, and broaden her horizons? What if she got a job where travel was part of it?

That said, I think ID cards should be introduced. I have my EU one; they're free, and used to access public services as well as just travelling within the EU.

It is very relevant to the discussion which was not about individual affordability but the wider question about passports being ‘ID’ cards.

The immediate situation of a railcard may be solved, but going forward that won’t prove the DD right to work, or anything else a passport can do.

So if people dont want id cards or passports what do you want?

Do you think 'but this is my name and I was born on thia date just beleive me because I say so' works with proving who people are?

I worked in a high street bank for years, honestly not having a passport or driving licence made it very hard for a lot of people, mainly women I noticed. An Id card would be amazing, I have never understood the resistance.

Just get her a bloody passport. It will get much harder for her not to have photo ID when she turns 18.

I too don’t get what you think the alternative is here. Should the people just believe your DD is who she days she is? She could have anyone’s birth certificate.
Get the passport.

My mum hasn’t driven for 30 years but always renews her driving licence as a form of ID. What’s the alternative? We need people to prove who they are more than ever in this day and age!

For voting from 18, a passport will be needed

It’s only ID by the back door because the U.K. quite ridiculously refuses to have them by the front door.

It’s quite reasonable for lots of things to need a photo ID for proof of identity or age. In the absence of any alternative then it will have to be a passport.

When my passport expired I automatically renewed it even though I dont intend to travel abroad again. I dont drive and found that as I run an international business I often need one to transfer money. Yes its best part of £100 but it does last 10 years and will probably see me out as I am in my 80s now.

Oh and wrt the elderly photo ID is still invaluable.

when we found out my mil was being financially abused it was a shitshow. The abuser had removed all her bank cards and had the banking and other documentation redirect to their address/had access to online banking.

even when we physically went to the bank to sort it out the first issue was lack of ID. We were very fortunate that she’d kept her expired driving licence in the back of her wallet.

but no valid ID meant we couldn’t open new accounts. So we were dealing with the compromised ones which meant no online or telephone banking, no using bank cards for 6 months until a PoA was sorted. So to get any money it was a physical trip to the bank to see the member of staff who knew her and could confirm ID.

passport renewals are relatively easy and inexpensive on a per year cost. Start putting the £10 a year aside.

No, she can register for a voter id card. You don’t need a passport to prove your identity to vote.

Fair enough, I heard there quite a few ID cards you can't use for voting. Provisional licence is one

I don’t mind an ID card. But I object very strongly to digital ID, which would be sold as a convenience; and I foresee it being tied to things like fuel rationing. purchase quota, carbon footprint, lockdown compliance; and once the infrastructure is in place, there would be no going back.

And digital ID would be a big IT project, and it couldn’t possibly happen that a big IT project would accidentally-on-purpose incriminate hundreds of people, and actually sending them to prison, with the bigwigs knowingly using faulty software.

Oh wait….

She’ll probably want to go on holiday with friends after her A Levels, as most young people do. A passport would seem sensible.

You don’t need to spend £102, you’ve already said you could use a provisional license, which is much cheaper. although a quick google search tells me you don’t need either for the 16-17 card - a birth certificate alone
will suffice.

You could also use a birth certificate and government ID (the letter that comes with your NI card would do) to prove eligibility for a job.

I can’t really work out whether you’re for or against the ID card scheme?!

I am against it because I already have a passport and a driving licence, it seems pointless to have a third thing but I suppose it makes for someone in your DDs situation.

Citizenship card? Although that's harder to get than a ruddy provisional. Been on one for nearly a year now. They're proper picky fuckers.

That's just batshittery, though.

So she's never going to go abroad in the next 10 years at all?

You've not been been away for 20 years?

You're only getting the provisional license for a Railcard and she won't even learn to drive?

Anyway a quick search says there are ways to get first provisional without a passport. I suggest you do that.

You know the more I think about it there are multiple things I’ve used either my passport or my driving license for in the last few months that don’t even include travelling abroad.

The easiest thing might be just to bite the bullet, pay the money and get the passport!

Yes there’s a lot of online verification now which needs photo ID.

this week I’ve used mine to get back into my online banking that I’d got logged out of.

i set up a new Revolut account as they were offering a good rate for something.

i set up my HMRC account. They now need online Id verification for certain submissions.

that’s just this week.

my elder dc has just turned 18 and I swear we have the passport or driving licence out every other day to access something or other. I had to send copies to my bank last week to get them added as a second CC holder for when they go to uni.

it seems like it’s a pita but it’s a lot easier than taking birth certs and address documents to the bank or wherever.

I lived in another country and they had free ID cards that were used as proof of identity everywhere, to access healthcare, to digitally sign contracts amongst other things. It was great. They weren't mandatory but everyone had one. I don't understand the opposition here in the UK at all.

Do you want a bet?