AIBU to be upset after my parents drove DD unsafely?

[worralorralozza]

Staying back at my parent's for Easter. They are in mid to late 70s. My mum is very energetic and active and always encourages me to leave my daughter with them for a day or two so I have some time to myself, which is always much appreciated. I spent a night in a B&B, got back last night and plan to spend the rest of the week hanging out with DD. However last night my mother told me the the 'hilarious' story of how they had driven DD 5 miles without a seatbelt on. Apparently they had gone to pick up DD from an afternoon at my MILs and had decided to use their vintage car instead of their regular car for the journey. On the way there, DD had sat in the front. On they way back, DD had asked to sit in the back next to Nanna, whilst Grandad drove. They set off before DD's seat belt was fastened and realised in motion that it was defective. Rather than stopping and moving DD into the front seat, they decided Nanna would simply hold DDs seat belt in place over her. DD apparently protested about this, said she didn't feel safe and expressed concern that they would get in trouble with the police, but the journey went ahead regardless. I unfortunately reacted very angrily, telling my parents that a 7 year old clearly has more sense than they do. I have spoken to DD this morning, said she was right to express concern and told her I will tell them never to put her in an unsafe position ever again. Meanwhile my mother has been shouting at me when I asked her to clarify the circumstances, arguing that they didn't think this was against the law, offering no justification for not swapping her into the front seat other than 'not wanting to stop', and currently treating me like I'm getting hysterical over nothing.

AIBU - I'm getting hysterical over nothing
YANBU - Never leave DD in their care again

YANBU at all, car seats would have been a thing when you were a child, as were seatbelts being a legal requirement. I would be furious, especially given they do not see it as a big deal.

AIBU - I'm getting hysterical over nothing
YANBU - Never leave DD in their care again

These seem very extreme!
There is no point in getting hysterical over something that has happened, with no bad result. It is not unreasonable to be angry with them though!
And never leaving your DD with them again is again.... extreme

You need to calmly explain to oyur parents that yes it is illegal, but that is not the point. They placed your DD in danger and that is not acceptable.
Tell them, if they look after her again, she is to never travel in that vehicle. And when she is in the car, she must always be properly restrained - surely she should still be in car seat at 7 - is she over the 135cm?

When I attempted to explain all of this to them calmly, I was shouted at. Their defensiveness and their justifications suggest to me that they don't really understand what a serious lapse in judgement they've made, and gives me little confidence they won't put DD at risk again. She was sat on a booster seat that could easily have been moved to the front.

Well I haven't voted because your two criteria are such extremes it doesn't make sense.

Of course YANBU to be annoyed at there unsafe attitude to seat belts and to lay it out calmly and clearly but adamantly that they are not to do this again. But suggesting that you might never leave your DD in their care again is, well, a bit hysterical.

As a 70 y o grandfather, I back you up 100% OP.
They are idiots and I suspect the anger comes from the fact that they know it!

A 7 year old should not be using a booster seat. She should still be in the full back child’s seat. Why are you ok with using a crappy booster?

I'm guessing op that what you're most annoyed by and what's making you question their judgement the most is the fact they've doubled down instead of saying 'yes that wasn't the right thing to do and we wouldn't do it again' which is really what you as a parent need to hear in that scenario.

But I also think you need to consider the approach you've taken to the conversation and how angry you say you got. Plus the fact that that generation are often not the best at apologising to their children because that was not the done thing. My parents would never ever admit wrong doing even when I can see they know they were in the wrong.

So I think all you can do is decide if you trust them or not to act in dds best interests. If you think they'd repeat the behaviour or not. And how willing are they to listen to your dd if she tells them she feels unsafe and wants something to stop. And then you either keep her where she is with a clear agreement that in future seatbelts must be on properly and checked before leaving, and if dd feels unsafe they need to listen to her. Or you look at alternative childcare options.

I fully understand your frustration op. My parents are the exact same and we've had the same discussions with winter coats being worn in car seats, not leaving ds alone with their dog etc. For me there was a pattern that was being repeated and they refused to back down so ds is now in full time nursery and I rarely use them for childcare because I genuinely can't trust them. Ds still sees them plenty but with me there.

This depends on the size and weight of the child. Ds is 3 but the size of a 5 year old and is in an extended rear facing car seat having grown out of the ones that said they catered to age 4 last year. If you've a larger child they will move out of these things faster than the age recommendations.

Yanbu they'd not be trusted to be in the position to take her anywhere in a vehicle again. Which means not leaving her in their care.

A 7 year old girl standing over 135cm would be very very unusual.

Their age is not an excuse, btw. I’m 70 and my kids (now in their late 40s) were never allowed to travel without appropriate seats and restraints - all my generation knew the dangers.

I suspect their defensiveness is because they know they were in the wrong, and are embarrassed to admit it.

If they can’t genuinely promise this won’t happen again, I would be very cautious about leaving your daughter alone with them. That’s not, of course, to say they can’t spend time with her.

When we had 3 x dc we agreed his dps were never to drive our dc anywhere..
Mil never got out of second gear and she wore her glasses to help fil when he drove..
They can still spend time with dd without having to take her in a car. If they can't agree to that then her safety isn't their priority and they should see her with you there only. It's even the law to have ddogs safely secured now!

My father did a similar thing with dd when she was about the same age.

He brushed me off when I spoke to him about it, saying I was being ridiculous. I never let him drive her anywhere again. Had he apologized and acknowledged hed put her in danger, things might have been different

I'd sit down and seriously discuss your feelings on it, potentially request that they don't use the vintage vehicle when transporting her if that makes you feel better too. I wouldn't go in all guns blazing. Lapses in judgment aren't worth destroying a relationship over.

Realistically, a vintage car is inherently unsafe in more ways that just a seatbelt so you could argue you don't want her riding in that. I'm not saying you should - I grew up with a father who restored vintage cars from the 1930s...they don't have seatbelts at all! I rode in those cars regularly as a child and the realistic safety answer would have been if you crash you are likely dead. 1930s safety features at modern speed limits aren't conducive to safety. But we still used them because you balance risk and enjoyment. You don't have to do that. You can make a decision that you aren't comfortable with old vehicles, regardless of whether the seatbelt works or not.

We all do dumb things that aren't necessarily safe. I have a fond childhood memory of being allowed to ride (at slow speed and off road) in the dog compartment of the car! But it sounds like your daughter didn't enjoy it, so I'd take it from that angle and emphasise that her feeling safe is most important.

Yes, it’s unacceptable. There is no way that DP and I would treat one of his grandchildren like this - the car would be stopped and the dgc moved to a safe spot in the car with a working seatbelt.

DP and I wouldn’t be all safely belted up ourselves, and the dgc not. Really bloody selfish and stupid.

My 6 year old girl is 135cm and she’s not the tallest in her year, 4 girls stand taller and 2 boys (they all got measured and stood tallest to shortest). So not very, very unusual at all.

YANBU but never leaving her with them again is too extreme.

They should have either moved her to the front or to the side of the back where the seatbelt was functioning, even in the middle with a lap belt is better than no seatbelt at all (though, ideally an adult not needing a booster seat should take that spot). If there are enough functioning seatbelts for everyone in the car, there is no excuse not to use them and the police would have said that in the unlikely event they were stopped. I understand there is an exception in law for classic vehicles which have never had seatbelts fitted in the back, but I don't know if that would cover a defective seatbelt.

They do need to go and get the seatbelt repaired ASAP and I think I would apologise for shouting, even if I felt shouting was reasonable at the time, and then ask them to make sure to please do that before they use the car again, and in future always to make sure all seatbelts are fastened before the journey starts so that they don't need to stop.

Practically, if DD was in the front with an unrestrained adult behind her then she possibly wouldn't have been any safer in the event of a collision. But assuming there were three people in the car and at least three functioning seatbelts, it's a bizarre choice for them to have continued to drive with her unrestrained when they could have moved her. However, I think this preference can be explained calmly, and it will probably cause less offence.

I also think it's weird and illogical that they were prepared to listen to DD's preference enough to allow her to sit in the back but not enough to acknowledge that she felt unsafe! But I wouldn't bring this up because it's probably not really relevant.

A girl one day before her 7th birthday being 135cm tall is taller than 99.6% of other children her age. So you must live somewhere with a very unusually tall cohort in the class. Not impossible at all, but unusual for sure.

This is the UK/WHO growth chart for girls aged 2-18 years. https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/sites/default/files/Girls2-18yearsgrowthchart.pdf

It really is

Then my solution would be that they can only look after her at their house for a few hours but they are not to drive her. Or they accept that she should ONLY be driven in the back seat of the other car, obviously with seat belt and child seat- otherwise they won’t have her in their sole care.

I understand being angry (internally I would be raging at their stupidity), however it sounds like a stupid laps of judgement where they didn’t fully consider the risks. I think going in angry had made them more defensive. I would raise this another time once this has calmed down and respectfully lay down the new rules/boundaries.

I think never allowing them to look after DD again because of this would be a shame, but they do need to listen to you on this one.

Interesting, thank you for that. We’re not UK and as I said she’s definitely not unusual round here, though only anecdotally. Our car seats are until 145cm though.

Not necessarily, seatbelts weren’t a legal requirement for children until 1989. And car seats weren’t mandatory until 2006.
My parents drove us 50 miles with me in the backseat in my bassinet when I was an infant 🫣.
Anyway, not to detract from the OP.. YANBU.. if they can’t see why they’re in the wrong then they’re not learning from it and you can’t trust them

Oh god holding the seatbelt. I can remember my mother doing that so her dress didn’t get creased. Bonkers. Really unfair to your child as well as she’ll be worried she’ll get into trouble , children can really worry about these things not able to understand they are not the ones at fault.

I would also be angry. I wouldn’t necessarily be going hysterical at them but I would be questioning their judgement if they’re getting angry because they genuinely think holding a seatbelt down would be any kind of protection in an accident

A 7 year old shouldn't be sitting in the front either way!!!
They should be in a proper high backed booster seat in the back