To think the junior / resident doctors are greedy, selfish, entitled & lazy?

[SpottyAlpaca]

So the resident doctors are out on strike. Yet again. Patients are being inconvenienced & treatments delayed. Yet again.

They have received a pay rise of 28.9% over that last 3 years, which is by far the highest increase of any group in the public sector. Very few people in the private sector, who ultimately pay the doctors’ salaries, have received anything like as much. Very few of their patients will ever earn as much as a resident doctor. Yet still it’s not enough and they are demanding even more.

Doctors do an important job and deserve to be paid properly for it. But the BMA’s current approach is completely unreasonable and deluded. They talk about “pay restoration’ to 2008 levels but that’s completely unrealistic. The country is poorer now & simply can’t afford it. AIBU to think they should get back to work?

I support them.

Is the pay that bad though?

First year Foundation currently gets £38831 and second year £44439.

Assuming satisfactory progression they can be on £65k - £74k within a few years.

And if they go on to be a consultant or a GP they're extremely well paid.

I think they're taking the piss.

Pay scales for resident doctors in England

Blimey , i had no idea it was so low!

It depends what type of job they do. I also work alongside junior doctors and although not lazy, they are hardly so busy they don’t have time to sit and have lunch. I think they are extremely unreasonable and selfish to go on strike. Other NHS employees have got a far smaller pay rise. I think their pay offer is entirely reasonable.

Yabu

This is a really important point. One reason junior doctor pay isn't the best is because changes were reduce the time it takes to become a consultant because they always complained the career progression wasn't good enough. So now there are more consultants and it's possible to become a consultant in as little as something like 8 or 9 years - at which point they access MUCH higher salaries.
So yes junior doctor pay isn't great but actually it's like a lot of professions where you need to suck up the long hours /modest pay in your early career because you reap the rewards later.

So I'm inclined to agree with OP and I feel it is getting a bit much now. I know lots of resident doctors and they all seem to be doing just fine and dandy for money, several are privately educating their children and they don't seem to be working every hour under the sun either.

Not lazy and deserve a pay rise. The starting salary should be at least £50k when you consider their likely level of debt, fees for ongoing training, and rent costs (which are absolutely crazy now). If we are not careful we will have no doctors as they will go to other countries where their skills are in demand and paid accordingly.

I work with doctors too and am married to one.. a taxi home?!? Where does this happen? As for paid breaks?? Very rarely although I gave up counting the amount of post call days he was supposed to be at home that he went in and covered someone else’s shift for free. It shouldn’t be a race to the bottom - most professionals are underpaid and treated badly in the UK.

Yes the media are really good at digging out first year junior docs or people who are actually working part time and quoting seemingly low salaries - first and second year doctors are technically still in training so yes the pay is low much like in professions like accountancy and architecture where while training the salaries aren't that high - but the point is they are on a track whuch pretty rapidly takes them to much higher salaries.

I think they work hard but so do other professions. Social worker here with only 3.2% on the table.

They often don’t even get time to go to the loo. But , hey, keep slagging them off. Maybe they’ll start going home at shifts’s end instead of doing free overtime to ensure your relative’s problem is sorted, because they know there won’t be time for the next shift to do it. Then you can come on Mumsnet and slag them off for incompetence. Again.

I’m so sorry my child is a doctor and putting up with so many ungrateful people.

They do go home after shifts. They get onetime if they don’t. Started earlier this year. The Times had details today.

@Manxexile are you taking the piss?
The pay is dreadful. Do you know how many years it takes to be a consultant and the hoops you have to jump through ?
Doctors have to pay for their parking. They don’t even have time to even sip some water let alone take a lunch break. They are on their feet all day, think 20,000 steps over a 12 hour shift without eating or drinking. This is not even legal, but somehow acceptable in this unique profession. You would not do it unless you are a curious, intelligent and caring person.

After tax and contributions as it’s already been explained up thread, the pay is £14 an hour. They also usually have to move once a year before they get a training post to be a consultant. Most doctors I know how very poor mental health because the work life balance is dreadful. Wes Streeting is talking shit, please don’t listen.
@MyFAFOera No, it’s not rapid. Please get your facts straight. It takes years to become a consultant and you have to win a place on a highly competitive training post (of which there are very limited seats)

I think everyone should just be really aware that the media have a strong agenda in how they are reporting this, what aspects they cover, the slant they take and who they get on air to talk about it. If you were to sit down with a junior doctor and they covered their actual true point of view, I think the majority of people would overwhelmingly support them.

I mean they're absolutely not greedy or lazy or selfish or entitled.

In Scotland a teacher in their first year of teaching (after qualifying year) is paid around 43k.

And yet a junior dr gets 38k? That’s not right. They should be paid more and I think it’s absolutely shocking to describe them as greedy and entitled. It’s a really hard job and they save lives.

They will either get what they want or they won't.

Yes that’s low for the skill set they have.

Your fault for not training as a doctor if you knew all this tbh.

They don’t very often and it’s a poor career move to ask, apparently.

Reading this thread, it’s sad there is no much judgement together with so much ignorance.

9 years is a long time and it’s not a guarantee !! During this time the they’re being worked to death. Most are going to collapse by the time they are consultants, or be too drained to even give a shit. It’s too long and they need to be paid and compensated properly in the interim.

The country is not poorer. The greedy twats exploiting us all are richer. The underfunding of public services that has led Drs to this dreadful situation is a political decision. If my pay (comparable profession) for the job I had in 2004 had kept its buying power, that role would now pay in the high 70s k. It actually pays about 59k. And the workload/stress is a lot higher. Our Drs shouldn't have to look to the antipodes to earn a wage that reflects their skill level, with a work/life balance that optimises the effectiveness of their endeavours.

A year one resident doctor and a first year teacher earn about the same in Scotland. You’re referring to their FY salary, which is a training salary and about the same as a probationary teacher.

I agree. You can spend a couple of grand on a HGV licence and be passed within a week, and earn £50k as a new pass as drivers are in demand. You'll work longish hours but not as many as a doctor and it won't be nearly as stressful. I was getting paid almost £400 a night on HS2 and was normally doing just shy of four hours. Sometimes five on a busier night.

What proportion of resident doctors are actually striking?

It's difficult to take the BMA seriously as a professional institution, bearing in mind the fact that the BMA staff is striking internally due to perceived unfairness and grievances.

They are not a good advert for professionalism but a very good one for hard left political dogma rather than the needs of resident doctors.

They are playing a super role as Assasin for the credibility of the medical profession rather than as a professional and supportive association.