To think the junior / resident doctors are greedy, selfish, entitled & lazy?

[SpottyAlpaca]

So the resident doctors are out on strike. Yet again. Patients are being inconvenienced & treatments delayed. Yet again.

They have received a pay rise of 28.9% over that last 3 years, which is by far the highest increase of any group in the public sector. Very few people in the private sector, who ultimately pay the doctors’ salaries, have received anything like as much. Very few of their patients will ever earn as much as a resident doctor. Yet still it’s not enough and they are demanding even more.

Doctors do an important job and deserve to be paid properly for it. But the BMA’s current approach is completely unreasonable and deluded. They talk about “pay restoration’ to 2008 levels but that’s completely unrealistic. The country is poorer now & simply can’t afford it. AIBU to think they should get back to work?

Surely some of the resident doctors get a much higher hourly rate than that as they have been qualified for years.

i don’t understand how doctors are still pushing for more and the nurses unions are accepting below inflation offers. Nurses also work really hard, accrue a lot of university debt and have lives in their hands. They earn only a few pounds above national wage.

I support them.

It’s not money spent on war, though, it’s money spent on defence. And I’d quite like my son, and his colleagues, to have the correct and safe equipment to do his job just because he chose to join the military. Look at the world around you, right now, we’re in a very precarious position. Our military needs equipment and a lot of it swiftly.

I support them…I think they demonstrated their wage was effectively £14 per hour. That they have had a massive pay cut. Isn’t it something like 22% across the years. They are working in a deliberately underfunded system..with Dr unemployment a huge issue. I fear the current government are alienating people we really need to care (for us)

It strikes me Op that you know absolutely nothing about a resident Doctors hours or associated tasks. It's only once they get to this stage they realise the extent of their responsibilities.

The spending is unlikely to reach them…rather large corporations, drone technology..see for example body armour in Afghanistan. Huge spending on corporate profit and data gathering, facial recognition and other controls to be applied to civilians

Junior doctors have all my support to strike. Their pay is shocking -£36k before tax after studying for 6 years at uni. Is this how much we think their work is worth when they are literally saving lives, keeping people alive so they can go back to work and contribute to the system? They work through the nights, weekends, holidays….
Health and education should be funded properly. Fed up with the hate against healthcare workers and educators.
Health and education are literally what keeps the economy going and the key for a prosperous nation.

I supported them wholeheartedly at the first strike under Labour. Pay hadn't kept up, they were not valued or looked after. When you hear of people working in the NHS really struggle, this isn't right. They were offered a fair increase but here we are again, more strikes. Not so supportive anymore, especially when the NHS is struggling so much and the waiting lists so long.

And some private companies make a lot of money from public sector contracts. So some of the taxes that they and their workers are paying are effectively the government clawing back with one hand a chunk of what it has just paid out with the other.

Seems strange though that all these young doctors that are constantly striking went into the profession KNOWING the pay. So if it's not good enough for them why become a doctor in the first place

That’s just at the start! See the pp by a doctor!

With the grades and academic background doctors have, most of them could have gone to train and bankers and top lawyers and earn so many multiples. Most who go into medicine do so because they believe in it, but so many are becoming disillusioned with the NHS. You're not just a junior doctor when you graduate - it can last up to 15 years! So yes a £42k max salary is not a lot considering. And my experience of speaking to my friends who are junior doctors is you're given very little flexibility on where you work and what hours you do and the basic facilities are just crap. No parking, no where to put your lunch or even your coat. Sounds like small things but it's not when you're working crazy hours and the stress they're under. Many are very unhappy, even if they're not striking.

What you mean the taxes that various corporations dodge?

You think we should subsidise big business?

My dd earns more per hour in her part time job (which requires no qualifications) than she will earn as a junior doctor. I think that's pretty fucked up, personally.

Supply and demand isn't it.

They have a skill we want, so we need to pay what they ask.

If we don't pay and another country does, they will leave. Or they will get a better paying job doing something easier.

I have no sympathy, there is enough TV coverage (e.g. factual Ch4 TV shows) and enough written about the pay and conditions for resident / junior doctors, that should inform people before signing a contract for this job. If you don't like it and keep going on strike then it's not the job for you, the public service / moral issues around striking and potentially causing loss of life is another issue and I think it should be illegal for doctors to strike. The pay argument is always presented minus the fact they have extremely good visibility on pay progression for time served (not ability) and a guaranteed 28.9% final salary pension that is paid for by tax payers. In addition it's the only health service in the world where you are full time contracted to your employer yet can 'moonlight' in the private sector at the same time thus hugely increase your earnings. I am old enough to remember when 20 somethings graduated and worked 60 plus weeks in a new job without extra pay because we were excited to be learning something and to have employment. I have actually now lost track of their arguments because they lose me at c30% pay rise and 'strike', while all around me people are losing their jobs, their teenagers can't get a first job because nobody can afford to go to the pub any more.

I'll just leave this here.

Doctors have had some of the worst pay erosion of any employees in any sector over the last 15 or so years. Some other people may also have had similar, but not many, and certainly not on average across any other sector.

Other people feeling hard done by are also free to campaign for better pay.

I support the doctors. Their pay is a joke for what they are often single handedly responsible for (one or 2 often responsible for an entire hospital on a night shift)
There are not enough doctors so the ones employed are mostly burnt out and ill. Why the government does not create more posts/ hire more is just silly.
Tube drivers get 75K, why are dedicated and caring Doctors getting such shit treatment ?

Defeating your own argument.

When i sank my childhood and my prime years in my 20s into becoming a doctor amd a surgeon, there was a final salary pension, and I expected a mansion and a an Aston Martin. That's what I signed up for in 2008.

28 years later and my earnings are worth 30% less , the quality of life I was expecting is a pipe dream and the final salary pension scheme was ripped away from us over 15 years ago.

Social work, teaching, paramedics, military - all highly skilled roles, where wrong decision making can literally cost lives. Doctors absolutely carry a high level of skill, however their salary progression is significantly higher than and there’s certainly more respect shown than to other professions.

I think this strike is ill thought through in the current context.

This is an out of date argument. Current working conditions for Doctors and nurses are absolutely horrendous.
The ones that still come to work are picking up the slack from their burnt out colleagues who are off sick from stress and illness. Burnout is real. There is too much responsibility and not enough staff which generally erodes well-being over time.

Think long-term PTSD from having too much responsibility and not enough support over prolonged periods.

At least we can do his pay them properly in line with inflation and thank god some of them still come to work

@marcyhermit Thry don’t get other jobs in large numbers though. Don’t forget some are ok with their pay and conditions. Some never did really want the nhs. It is a passport to other medical jobs and working abroad. The state gets in a lot of doctors from abroad who seem happy to be here. We have increased the numbers of doctors being trained via universities but they are expensive to train further so hard up nhs trusts prefer doctors ready trained from abroad.

It’s still the case that the doctors overall package is misunderstood. They get overtime and weekend enhancements. Their pensions have huge amounts paid in by the state - 25% and more. Who else gets that? Part time working is easy to get and many retire well before 60. Then there’s lucrative private work. Plus most degree holders actually get a job they have studied for! What other subject offers that? None except nurses and dentists. Doctors have the best return on any degree subject!

We don’t need all their skills because the money allocated to the NHs won’t meet their demands. The strikes have cost £3 billion. We could have a shed load more nurses for that! It’s just too bad that we, who fund all of this, are held to ransom. No, we don’t just roll over and give in.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner they do not get overtime unless they are consultants

I have always supported workers on strike and I value the work that doctors do in trying conditions. The NHS is falling apart,

But you are right, it has gone too far. People will die because of this selfish and greedy action. We are all struggling and they are going to make it worse with their unreasonable demands. I think they have lost public support for the most part. Shame on them.