AIBU to think face coverings in public should be banned?

[OpheliaWasntMad]

Should all types of face covering in public be banned? I think they should. Mainly I’m concerned that people in balaclavas and face coverings are shoplifting and stealing phones etc with impunity.
People with balaclavas on marches look threatening and sinister.
Women with niqabs create a barrier between themselves and others as it’s hard to form connections if you can’t see someone’s facial expressions.
I think all face covering should be banned. It contributes to a society that feels more unsafe and divided.

Perfectly reasonable. It is a security issue which as you say prevents social cohesion.

I would also add that after the Sara Sharif murder where her hijab was used to hide some injuries and mask ongoing abuse, no child should be allowed these in school. They are also divisive and have apparently led to bullying of some Muslim students by other Muslims for not wearing them.

Have you actually spent time with women in niqab? Although it's very uncommon where I live, from time to time I work alongside women in niqab and I honestly don't feel it creates a barrier at all. A huge amount of non-verbal communication happens through the eyes.

Good point about Sara Sharif. Seeing young girls in any sort of veil or covering does make me feel uncomfortable I have to admit.

Dows this include medical face masks, such as the ones we wore in tbe pandemic? I see quite a lot of people wearing them still.

This is a genuine question but what would you class as a “covering” that would be banned.
If it’s cold and someone has a woolly hat pulled down quite low, and a scarf pulled up over their mouth? If that’s ok, how cold do you allow it? Who judges that?
I’m assuming you wouldn’t be including someone immunocompromised wearing a face mask?

Yes - I acknowledge that there will be difficulties pinning down the details. There will always be exceptions. I think anyone who is immune compromised should have an exemption to wear a mask in public .Anyone wrapped up in a scarf on a bitterly cold day should uncover their face in shops and cafes .
Essentially, I think anyone covering their face in a public place should be challenged by police . It’s routine where I live for some young people to zoom around on stolen lime bikes with balaclavas on . The shoplifters where I live all wear face covering and charge in and out of shops grabbing whatever they like.

No they shouldn’t. The “sinister” issues you mention are relatively small in number, but your main problem of women choosing to wear religious clothing would be severely impacted. I don’t wear any kind of face covering, but have no need to “form connections” with people in public. Many shops already do have restrictions on face coverings that shoplifters wear. If someone is going to nick your phone, they aren’t going to be too bothered about following a law on face coverings. There is already a bill going through Parliament to deal with people hiding their identity at protests. The law already allows for anyone to be asked to remove a face covering by the police for identification purposes.

A nationwide ban of all face coverings in public would also have a massive impact on people who wish to use face coverings for health reasons.

Yes being mugged by someone in a balaclava leaves little room for nuance eyes wise

I’m afraid I cannot agree that it is easy to pick up on non verbal cues if you can’t see only see the eyes.
A great deal of information is conveyed through the mouth and forehead.

You think people who have health reasons should be exempt, but police should challenge everyone? You think someone has to declare their health history to a police officer?

Shops and cafes are not designated as “public places” they can have any policy they like already.

What about scarves when it’s cold?

Facemasks when people don’t want to spread illness or catch things?

Do you want to ban them too?

Why do you think in a democracy the state should tell people how to dress?

and again in a democracy why should law abiding people be challenged by the police?

The shoplifters where I live all wear face covering and charge in and out of shops grabbing what they like

I agree it’s an issue. I’m not sure that a law saying they should take off their face covering when entering a shop will prevent them from breaking the law. The law against shop lifting certainly doesn’t.

Personally I think face coverings (all face coverings, religious or not) should be treated the same. So if someone needs to show their face in a bank or buying medication etc, then I’d apply that across the board.
But I don’t think a rule about balaclavas in shops would make a blind bit of difference to shoplifting as a problem.

The “sinister” issues I mentioned are definitely not small in number!!
You might not need to make connections with others in your locality but for many people it helps to create a feeling of a safe and friendly neighbourhood.
People whose faces are covered create a barrier between themselves and others.

Why are medical masks or scarves to keep you warm ok but face covering for a religious reason not ok?

I think face covering should be banned -it never used to be an issue but is now being routinely used by criminals to hide their identity.

I agree with you OP. I am very hard of hearing and have to lip read as well as wear hearing aids.

I don’t think it is ever ok to routinely cover your face in public unless you have a very specific health need.

I don't think anyone's obliged to make connections with you. And if they have to for some reason, and you can't decipher what they're trying to get across, then it's their choice, not yours, to either remove what's covering their face or simply decide not to persevere with the conversation.

How do you manage with people on the phone? Assuming you can handle a telephone conversation, just treat it like that.

I think people should be allowed to wear what they want.

i quite often wear a hat and “buff” across my nose and lower face if it’s cold.

ban coverings, why not go a step further and dictate what women people should wear.

i don’t particularly agree with covering for “modesty” and religious reasons as a) I think religious texts don’t necessarily refer to the body and “modesty” refers to no obvious displays of wealth and privilege. The Sikh turban for example is a leveller- all men wear them so some are not marked as better, or lesser. b) I am not convinced it is always a true choice.

but if someone genuinely wants to cover from head to foot then crack on. Same as if someone wants to wear a bikini for New Year’s Eve in Newcastle. Not going to force people into coats.

The main problem is the young thugs, sometimes on bikes and scooters, who wear them because they are up to no good.

A shop or cafe is a public place in terms of legislation about public order. Many people are going into shops with face coverings in order to shoplift . It’s becoming a massive issue.

There is a difference to wearing something that covers the face when it's cold, or when you have a cold (!) etc., however regarding religious garb we could emulate France and be secular couldn't we, niqabs and burkas were banned there in 2011 in public places, and the sky hasn't fallen in.

I live in Scotland where it’s pretty cold. On Saturday it was -1C plus wind and freezing rain and my phone said it felt like -8C. I wore a scarf over my face to keep warm.

is that allowed in your brave new world?

also you didn’t answer my questions about whether it’s appropriate in a democracy for the government to tell people what to wear and why law abiding people should be challenged by the police?

I agree that this is the main problem. But it is not only reason why face covering should be banned ( imo)

Why is covering you face for warmth or health ok but for religion not ok?