AIBU to think face coverings in public should be banned?

[OpheliaWasntMad]

Should all types of face covering in public be banned? I think they should. Mainly I’m concerned that people in balaclavas and face coverings are shoplifting and stealing phones etc with impunity.
People with balaclavas on marches look threatening and sinister.
Women with niqabs create a barrier between themselves and others as it’s hard to form connections if you can’t see someone’s facial expressions.
I think all face covering should be banned. It contributes to a society that feels more unsafe and divided.

Absolutely agree faces should not be covered in shops or airports for whatever reason whatsoever. As an aside, I spend a lot of time in Austria where there is a ban on face coverings. Saudi and Kuwaiti women actively break this rule by permanently wearing medical type face masks. They even expect the poor Filipino nannies to do the same but that is a whole other thread….

If it's only a very small minority why would you want legislation, which is a serious matter, to ban the wearing?

Because face covering hooliganism is increasing exponentially

Do you genuinely think that the hooligans are going to care if it's against the law? They're already breaking laws, or they wouldn't be hooligans!

Is the Earth flat or round? What do you think of 15 minute cities?

Have you ever actually spoken to a woman and asked? I have and the answer I got is that this was a quite normal way to dress in their community and they were quite happy with it.. Over time some women indeed do choose to change the way they dress having lived in the UK for a period of time. Some do not. Again personal choice.

Women should never have their clothing choices be decided by the goverment.
The goverment telling women their banned from wearing a niquab is just as much oppression as making it law that women have to wear one.
Why can't we just trust women to choose the clothing style they like?! Why does the goverment have to get involved at all?

💯

I've never heard of niqab-wearing women involved in hooliganism in the UK

No - neither have I. Two separate issues. Read the thread.

OP isn’t talking about Jewish or any other women that wear wigs, head scarves and/or long, drab dresses. This is specifically about face coverings.

I lived in Whitechapel – PLENTY of niqabs. I now live in a shire town and work in central London – I see a lot less niqabs in the shire, mainly hijabs. In fact, it's rather jarring when I do see niqabs because, in this town, it's unusual but is increasing in a town that has a sizable Muslim population. I most definitely see young schoolgirls regularly in London wearing niqabs and plenty of women wearing them.

As an aside, I’d welcome a ban on all face coverings.

Have you ever walked your kids to school in the icy cold winds in the Yorkshire Dales?! Even in my pink fluffy balaclava style hat my nose is still painfully numb Dec - Feb and the school is only a 15 minute walk each way. Why should I not be able to keep warm in the winter?!

Banning face coverings is not going to help Muslim women who are being coerced into wearing them. Quite the opposite.

Iran once banned veils and what happened was that many women were confined to their homes because they either didn't want or weren't allowed to go out with their faces uncovered. If they did go out in public with their faces covered they were beaten and had their veils torn off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashf-ehijab

Women should be able to choose.

I have no time for Islamists, parents who put primary-aged girls in hijabs, Pakistani politics playing out on the streets of the UK, balaclava-wearing hoodlums careering around the streets and pavements on electric bikes, etc. but have even less time for those who are trying to equate shoplifting and anti-social behaviour with women's dress

You make an excellent point (not that I'm in favour of facial recognition software!) . Think it will take a few years to get to that point though.

But the goverment outlawing what women what they can and can't wear wouldn't be a controlling at all?
I trust women to make their own decisions with their own bodies and how they decide to dress them.

No one is equating shop lifting and women’s dress.
Two distinct and separate reasons why face covering is bad .

1. Face covering facilitates criminal behaviour
2. Isolates women who cover their faces and is divisive

@thepariscrimefiles "Banning the niqab would be very illiberal and authoritarian"

France, basition of illiberal society and authoritarian government, would like a word.

This is such a weird issue to get het up about and the only people I've ever known to be bothered are Covid-era loons and racists (there's a substantial overlap).

Of all the social injustices and inconveniences in the world THIS is the one you stamp your foot about? Let other people cover, or not cover, themselves how they want. Wind your neck in.

I most definitely see young schoolgirls regularly in London wearing niqabs

I am very anti young schoolgirls even wearing hijabs - but truly have never seen them in niqabs! Are you sure? What age?

I'm chucking at the idea me and the other Mums on the school run would be hauled away in the back of a police car for wearing our balaclava style hats / scarfs over our noses in the icy cold winds we get 3 months a year 😂
I hope the school after school club has space for all our little ones when we're having a peaceful night in the cells.
You're all ridiculous if you think banning a warming face covering would work in cooler parts of the UK

Are France, Denmark, Belgium, Switzerland etc. etc. etc. oppressive governments?

Is it oppressive to instil Western norms (e.g. you don't cover your face when you leave the house because #men #culture) for those that live in Western countries?

Is it more or less oppressive for men in families to dictate what women wear or the government of a Western country?

Rhetorical questions.

“Women with niqabs create a barrier between themselves and others as it’s hard to form connections if you can’t see someone’s facial expressions”

So what? If people don’t want to form a connection with you or anyone else that is absolutely their prerogative.

if you ban face coverings you’ll criminalise a bunch of perfectly law abiding people while the thugs who cover their faces for nefarious purposes will continue to do so - you can’t legislate against surgical masks and scarves.

My husband has a beard. You can't see his lips or chin. In cold weather he wears a wooly hat and you can't see his ears, in sunny weather he wears dark glasses and you can't see his eyes. His beard is white and little children often think he's father Christmas.

I admittedly only ever worked with one niqab wearer, and it made no difference at all to the way we interacted. We had a laugh, chatted normally. Nobody seemed to have any issues communicating with her and she was very friendly and popular.