Scouts going mixed sex and the rise of toxic masculinity

[wobblychristmastree]

When scouts decided to go mixed sex for all sections a lot of boys who would have had a healthy boy only space and strong male role models then suddenly didn’t. And these boys are now young men and some of them a producing the manosphere podcasts and spreading their toxic masculinity crap. The timing is right.

AIBU to think boys still need healthy boy only spaces, and strong male role models? and scouts have let them down..

Scouts was on the verge of closing down because not enough boys wanted to join. They had a choice between that or becoming mixed sex.

or, all those boys in scouts see girls doing all the things boys can and come out with a healthy respect for the opposite sex…

of all the places to lay the blame for toxic masculinity, the scout association would not be top of my list.

I don't think scouts is that influential. And I say that as someone who is a heavily involved and a strong supporter. There are plenty of other spaces where they can have positive male role models. Many sports clubs are single sex during the teenage years.

There are only 2 girls in my ds scout troop anyway. The rest are all boys.

I was a leader at the time and my unit was full to bursting with a waiting list @GCAcademic

the point still stands

Women have been Scout leaders since the beginning pretty much.

How about blaming the atrocious behaviour of some Football patents and Coaches?

They have mixed sex absolutely everywhere else so not really an argument

Yes that’s a point about football. Where are the healthy boy only spaces??

My Dd14 is just finishing scouts and surely an antidote to the propaganda pedalled by the Manosphere is that girls and boys can do the same things at scouts. The previous situation where Boy Scouts went on adventures and 1980s Brownies like myself went around to a stranger's house to do their washing up to qualify for the domestic badge probably set back equality by quite some time. I think there might be a slight issue with some girls in scouts being more able and independent than some boys, from our experience, but I don't thinking banning girls is the solution to that. Is it female scout leaders you object to if you are concerned about male role models? I cannot envisage how the addition of girls ruins some sacred male only space.

Of course, anyone is welcome to set up a boys only club, run by men.
They just need to get enough adult men to give their time and money. Especially their time.

And get rid of the stigma that men who want to do these things have an ulterior motive.

Oddly our Beavers and Cubs are now 100% male. The girls have been put off by the number of boys... it wasnt a deliberate plan

Are you a woman or a man? Are most of the leaders men or women? I think that boys can benefit from boys only spaces but I’m not sure if it can be a true boys only space with women leading.

Do you think that boys schools are more healthy than mixed schools? Not everyone has access to single sex schooling but do you think that parents should send their boys to one if available?

Where I live there’s a Men’s Sheds sort of group. Not sure about the ages or how strict they are about the men bit but this is the only non-sport men’s only group that I know of.

Where I live there are Beavers, Cubs, Scouts and the Guiding equivalents. As a consequence, they are divided by sex, by choice. ( Except for 1 girl in scouts).
In the next village there is only Scouting available and the groups have a mix of boys and girls. Probably 50/50.
Scouts and Explorers here are run by men.
DS 1's Beavers leader gave up when they made her take girls, she thought it should remain something for boys to have for themselves.

Re the stigma:
In many cultures, boys stay with the women until a certain age, at which point there is a ritual and a formal transition whereby the the then boys belong with the men.

There are vestiges of this in our society, such as the idea that boys go in the female changing rooms with their mothers up to the age of 7, then from 8 they go in the men's (whether alone or accompanied by a male relative).
Another example is the Jewish bar mitzvah at age 13. The age of the transition varies from culture to culture.

There are also sports for children divided by sex, and as far as I know (and I know very little about sports) there is not a shortage of men coaches and team leaders e.g. for football?

In a society that recognises that boys of a certain age belong with the men, there will be no stigma to running a boys club, at least for older boys.

Boys Brigade is still boys only.
It's a Christian organisation so some boys might not be interested in that side of it.

Absolutely agree with OP. The Cubs I took 2 of mine to was very girl-oriented, and you could just tell that the boys needed space to just be boys.

Scouts is not where these attitudes come from. The girls in scouts, on the whole, are outdoorsy and adventuresome and just as capable as the boys. The boys respect that and include them as equals. In the 'manosphere' girls are just there to look sexy and cook dinner. Look far, far away from scouting to find the source of toxic masculinity!

It must be harder for non-sporty boys if they want to do something boy only. Otherwise there's football/rugby etc. which is divided into boys/girls teams by late primary age.

I think the rise of social media has had a much bigger impact on toxic masculinity than the availability of boy only/mixed sex clubs though.

there are some really nonsensical threads on here today.

this one must be in the top 5

Scouts should be for males/boys xy chromosomes

Girl Guides should be for females/girls xx chromosomes

That way both sexes have positive sex only spaces without trans bullshit being rammed at them.

No they weren’t.

Girls were gradually included over 2 decades (70s to 90s)- responding to demand.

Girls incision did lead to a boost in members.

So did the advent of Beavers (massive membership boost)

And modernisation of the programme.

It’s never been in danger of closing.

My dses love scouts which is about a third or so girls in their group. It is a great place for them to do activities with both boys and girls outside school. It does nothing other than enforce positive attitudes to others and respect. I am so happy girls can join and fail to see why should they be excluded.

Lack of positive male role models is a huge issue in society, not just through examples like this where traditional male only activities have become compromised.

The school I work at has even begun an initiative to try and tackle this, trying to provide these role models to the male students that need it most.

In my own classes, misogynistic phrases such as 'that's women's work' are beginning to creep back in. It's a very concerning trend.

I'm not sure I have ever heard scouting being blamed for the culture of toxic masculinity before.

If I was looking for somewhere to start I'd start with football.

Being around women stops toxic masculinity. It's when blocks get together and "joke" about women belonging in the kitchen etc that the ridiculous ideas come from.

I'm male btw.

Get a group of 14 year old boys, an Andrew Tate video and it's a recipe for toxic behaviour. Throw one girl in the mix and most of the straight boys will be trying to impress her and shut down the nonsense.

I was a teen in the 80s and always had girls around as part of our gang. The fact that we mixed meant that whilst I was successful in attracting a girlfriend, I wasn't sat in my room thinking it was the girls fault and they were all evil.