to resent pressure on grandmothers to provide childcare?

[ReluctantGM]

I feel like there’s a real pressure placed on grandmothers that just isn’t there for grandfathers.

I work and I want to keep working. Partly because I need the income, but also because it gives me structure and some space. But because I’m the grandmother, there’s a clear pressure on me to step in and provide regular childcare so my daughter and daughter-in-law can return to work. I’m often told I could be spending more time with the grandchildren and building a bond with them.

I do understand that childcare is expensive and that life is more expensive these days. I’m not dismissing that at all. But I’ve said more than once that I can’t do it. I don’t have the energy or capacity for it, and I don’t want to take on that level of responsibility.

My DD and DS keep bringing it up and have even suggested that I go part time or rearrange my hours to make it work. It feels like pressure rather than a genuine choice.

I was exhausted by parenting the first time round. My DS had mental health problems and needed a lot of care and support well into his early twenties. I gave everything to that stage of my life. Yes I love my grandchildren, but that doesn’t mean I want to be responsible for them day to day.

I also find it really hard to tolerate crying babies and young children now and I don’t want to keep getting ill from all the bugs they inevitably bring home.

Yesterday I was out shopping and saw a toddler having a full tantrum and felt relieved that I don’t have to deal with that anymore. I walked away to get away from the noise.

What I find particularly frustrating is that there is absolutely no expectation on my husband. No one is asking him to change his work or take this on. It’s just assumed I should be the one to step in.

I’ve spoken to other friends and they feel the same pressure. Their husbands get no pressure and there are no expectations of them to adjust their work hours or give up work to look after children.

Why do adult children/DIL/SIL feel they can pressure grandmothers into providing childcare, while grandfathers are left alone or not even asked, especially if they’re working?

@SheilaFentiman a NADCALT post - I've googled, but no still no idea what a NADCALT post is?

I was exhausted by parenting the first time round. My DS had mental health problems and needed a lot of care and support well into his early twenties. I gave everything to that stage of my life.

Have you pointed that out to them, OP? That you found parenting exhausting including the care and support and you don't have it to give anymore?

I have to agree with you OP. For the poster saying that today’s grandmothers were often SAHMs or worked PT, I think you are thinking of the generation before us. I am in my 60s and all of my contemporaries, like me, went back to work with children and have worked for more than 40 years. And I didn’t get paid mat leave either.

My friends and I find that we are the default carers for elderly parents, elderly in laws, sundry aunts and neighbours as well as grandchildren - and even grown up children in terms of supporting them emotionally. Whilst our husbands/partners enjoy being the fun ones. I often taken care of the grandchildren on my own and rearrange my diary for emergency care, whilst my husband never would.

I am glad to help when I can and am happy to be close to them, but let’s be realistic about what’s actually going on here.

I my case, my farther was estranged in life (since i was a toddler) and has now died anyway, so there's not going to be childcare coming from that direction. He was shit in every conceivable way, but not relevant to this particular anecdote

Interesting thread and conversation. I agree that there’s a general societal expectation that puts pressure to care for others on women that just isn’t there for men. Elderly parents that need support/care - daughters are expected to step up in a way sons never would be. Your own children are off school sick, or need to be picked up early - it always defaults to “mum will do it” (I’ve seen posts on here where women are saying as they are the higher earner, their husbands are listed as primary contact to the school, yet the schools default to calling the mum first regardless). Your adult children have kids of their own - ask mum if she will babysit or provide childcare for you.

I think though, you need to look at your partner. How hands on was he with your kids as a dad when they were little? Because if you did everything, and he was never really there, of course they’ll ask you and not him. I’m hoping that now we are seeing dads starting to do more as the norm, this will change attitudes over time.

Personally, I’m hoping I can provide some sort of childcare for my grandchildren, if my sons ever have children. But I currently work full time and cannot see that changing. What I would do though, is ask work if I could do condensed hours to give me a day I could offer up to have any kids.

But that’s me. I loved my time with the kids when they were little, but couldn’t afford to be a SAHM. So if I have the opportunity to help out with my grandchildren, I absolutely will. If you didn’t enjoy parenting young children, of course you shouldn’t feel obliged to say yes to help with grandchildren. Hell, even if you loved it you shouldn’t feel obliged.

It’s fine for them to ask - ONCE. It’s equally fine for you to say no. It’s not ok for them to put pressure on. And given that you would be less likely to be able to get back into a job at an older age if you took a few years out to help with grandchildren, it’s even less reasonable for them to continue asking.

Regarding the sexist element, have you asked them directly - “why have you asked me to give up paid work to look after your children but not your father?”

My mum was still working when my two were born. And also, I moved to London in my early twenties while they are still in Wales, so being able to depend on them as childcare was never an option. That said, I know if we lived locally, she would have done what she could to help and would have likely relished the idea of having them for me to go back to work. But it’s a personal decision and I would never have thought to ask. Both she and my dad have been amazing grandparents though, coming to visit lots and taking the kids not just in day trips but little holidays etc and having them down in wales for a couple of weeks each summer, spoiling them rotten with day trips and everything kids should get to enjoy with grandparents. Mine are 16 and 18 now and still talk fondly about their summers with nanna and Grampa - whether than was in a caravan in pembrokshire for a few days or making a big thing out of catching the double decker from where we live into central London, packing sandwiches for the journey and eating them at the front of the top deck. So while the idea of grandparents childcare sounds awesome, I’m now glad they got this version of my parents, not the stand-in mum and dad version.

My career was sacrificed so I could bring up our children.

My dh carried on as normal career wise

I didn’t give up work I just had to stop working a long commute away on more exciting projects and take a local job as an Architect working on housing which tbh was boring. I much preferred the large scale offices and hospitals to design and run
We had no parental support at all

Now our kids are at Uni I’ve been able to work on projects I enjoy and chose what I want to do

If we had grandkids and they needed childcare i would expect my dh to step in and make that change in his life

Anyone acting sexist and only asking me would be told very clearly they are sexist

I think that is a massive, and really odd, generalisation 😂

Have the conversation now, even hypothetically about a "friend" who has been asked but isn't prepared to do it.
Then slide in, "you do know that I would not be prepared to do any regular childcare, should you have children?".
Have that conversation now so there isn't any confusion.

It may be controversial to mention, but i do not believe the stress and exhaustion of running around after young children does womens long term health any favours in their 60's and 70's.

I saw it with my once fit SIL, whom was too tired after a long day childminding, to keep up regular exercise.
She gained weight and I know she was quite down about it.
Pre doing childcare she went walking with friends, to her local health centre, did classes, swimming etc. She drastically reduced these due to tiredness and missed her friends too, as she was no longer free for days out and lunches etc.
A disaster IMO.

It's not crap: It's science. We're given these extra years when as an organism, we do nothing to perpetuate our species, as we cannot reproduce. Genes have been selected for longevity, as human mothers cannot hunt, gather, breastfeed and shelter large amounts of babies and toddlers, who cannot even walk fast and cannot fend for themselves independently for several years. This limits the frequency The contribution of the otherwise redundant grandmother is to help perpetuate the species, by assisting more frequent reproduction by their daughters and tribe, through childcare of the vulnerable young members of their species

You can rant and rail about the science and how it doesn't suit bingo and saga holidays. Me, I look in the mirror at my sagging jawline and white stripe (root retouch coming soon) and tell myself "I have cheated death today". then go to work. Life is good.

Have you communicated exactly how you feel about this to your children and their partners ?
And do they continue to pressure you regardless?

I think you have an adult child problem, not a society one!
Seriously if mine behaved like that I'd be saying ' how many times do you have to be told! I cant support you on a regular basis. Get a list of childminders in the area and I will help if and when I can. '
There is nothing to add to that.

Work out how much you earn and tell them if they can meet that (which you need to live) amount, you'll do their childcare. Otherwise, you'll help out once you're actually retired (by which time the children will no longer need that childcare luckily!).

"A lot of woman over 60 have only worked PT or been SAHMs. They conveniently forget that their own daughters work full-time, commute and pay huge amounts for wrap-around childcare and will likely not get the opportunity to play bingo or go on saga holidays, walk the dog, read books, sit on their arse, or whatever unemployed people in their 60s and 70s do."

What a ignorant fucking patronising load of old bollocks. I am late 60's I worked full time in a stressful job, ans did no childcare for my Grandchildren. I never got childcare either.
You are not only insulting, you are a bloody idiot as well.

You can rant and rail about the science and how it doesn't suit bingo and saga holidays. Me, I look in the mirror at my sagging jawline and white stripe (root retouch coming soon) and tell myself "I have cheated death today". then go to work. Life is good.

@CinnamonJellyBeans bloody love it.

Yes it does tend to be the grandmothers that provide childcare over grandfathers. I saw many more grandmothers on the school run than grandfathers.
My grandmother provided lots of childcare when my mum returned to work once my youngest sibling was in school. She had us most Saturday nights and any school holidays/inset days that my parents were working. She was retired and widowed and loved having children around.
My own parents and in laws don’t live near me and are retired. They’ll have them for a night or 2 while I’m at something like a wedding but they’re frequently on holiday so we only see them twice a year. My children have a very different relationship with grandparents than I did but that could mostly be to do with the physical distance.
As for people saying women were often SAHM or worked part-time. That’s why we have to work longer, to make up our pension.
Set your boundaries and stick to them.
Do o get annoyed when my parents don’t understand why I’m always so busy, yes. Do I begrudge them their retirement the way they want it, no.

But OP has already said she doesn’t want to do childcare for a living

Exactly! I've worked since I was 16. Worked 24 hours a week as a uni student. Worked full time through marriage and as a divorced mum.

My own mum, 85, worked full-time her whole life. Nights when we were young so she could be there during the day. Commuted on a bus because she couldn't afford a car. Had to take us into work with her (sit us in a back room) when we were sick because she wasn't allowed time off.

That's a load of sexist shit.

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do.

But don't expect your grandchildren to really care much about you and I wouldn't expect much help from your DC when you get old and frail.

Case in point, my kids are really close to my mum as she sees them so much. They're not really that bothered about the other set who they only occasionally see and are not part of their lives.

But if that doesn't bother you, then crack on.

@ReluctantGM How much childcare did your parents do when your DCs were little?
I have never pressured my own DM or MIL to provide childcare but I must admit I do a little eye roll when I see my aunt in law refuse to help with childcare of her grandchild when I know my DH spent most weekends with his cousins at their grandparents house. My aunt was happy to offload her childcare responsibilities to her mother but gets offended when her DCs moan that she won't help them out

Really? I adored my grandparents although they did no childcare at all and didn't live locally, despite us not having a car, so being unable to vist them very often.

If you're not helping facilitate family relationships either, that isn't all on your in-laws.

Normal families living normal lives and going to work as is their right see relatives when they can

Being a childminder is a different sort of relationship with family to the occasional Sunday lunch catching up or out for a day excursion out enjoying life with family and grandkids

Just because it’s different doesn’t mean it’s worse.

and Respect for others right to live their lives as they wish is a good lesson for children to learn

This thread essentially is about the sexist expectation for grandmothers to do childcare and not grandfathers. Another good lesson not to pass on to kids

If my children grow into the sort of adult who thinks like you do I really wouldn’t want them too involved when I’m old and frail. Oh and I’d dread to think what kind of dc a person like this is raising. Maybe the other set are counting their blessings.

Agree

Hahaha ot all the women who washed their husband's socks and then finally become feminists when they're asked to help out with their own progeny.