To think you can’t move a child abroad without consent?

[cruelworld12]

Hi all,

My dad has 3 younger children from his second marriage (now separated). Two are very early 20’s. He’s rubbish with technology and neurodiverse so asking for him as I’m all he’s got support wise.

The youngest is still only a young teen and is autistic, he goes to a specialist school etc so he’s much younger than his age. My dad sees him every other weekend and they live in the same village as she accepted a council house there. There’s no court order in place.

My dad’s ex moved on with another man after they separated. In doing so, she told their eldest he’d have to move out so it’s her, her partner, my youngest brother and my sister. She initially wouldn’t tell him anything about this man, only that he had some top secret MI5 job (this isn’t the case, he’s a civil servant). This man has been living with her and my brother for some time but they have never made any attempts for my dad to meet him or at least know who’s involved with his son’s life.

A few days ago, my dad’s ex messaged saying she wanted to meet him with this man. My dad asked why and refused and she would only say it was something to do with my brother and her partner’s work. We immediately thought, moving away. My dad still refused the meeting as he was too overwhelmed and shocked, about what it might mean and that he’d never met this man before.

My dad went to collect my brother tonight and the partner comes out to him. He’s always hidden away at drop offs etc, as I say, my dad has never met him. My dad’s ex didn’t come out. This man then decided to tell my dad that as he works away a lot, they’re going to be moving abroad, which will be a great opportunity for my dad’s ex and my brother to live abroad. He told him no details on where/when etc, only that it might be about October time, so he thought he’d give him the heads up now. He then left it on that note and went back inside, leaving my dad to take my brother away, with that now dropped on him.

What, if anything, can my dad do about this? Is it not child abduction if they take him against my dad’s consent? Understandably he’s full of emotions and all over the place and I just want to give him a bit of a plan.

@cruelworld12 your dad is in a very strong position if he goes to crt for official custody and a prohibitive steps order as the crts care about what's best for the child.

From what you're saying, your dad has been big part of your brothers life even after the split, even with the mother actively interfering with the relationship between father and son. Your dad is qualified as an asd carer and is actively involved with school etc (all good points for him).
All of your brothers family apart from his mother will be staying locally including all of his siblings.
Whereas his mother is wanting to remove a vulnerable child from his family, his home, his school and his country all because she wants to follow some man who she only been in a relationship for a relatively short time and isn't even married to.

Honestly no sane judge would ever think allowing her to remove him from the country is in his best interest. She will be given a choice remain living in her current area (not necessarily the same house but the same village/town or neighbouring ones). Or move without him and your dad having full custody. Also if she stays local your dad will get atleast and extra midweek contact if he asks for more time with your brother.

Honestly going to crt will really benefit both your dad and your brother.

They can’t just do that!, your dad has parental responsibility and rights as he is on the birth certificate, they cannot just up and leave to another country! They have to have permission from the child’s father to do this, or a court has to agree to it but it has to benefit the child not the parents and they will have to prove this too, He needs to apply to the courts for child arrangements order so this can all be discussed and if he don’t agree dismissed. I had to apply for a specific order for my daughter last year because her dad refused to allow me to take her abroad on a family holiday for 7 days! We then had a child arrangements order put in place and she is now down as living with me which means I can now take her out of the country up to 28 days without his permission. He needs to seek legal advice and get the ball rolling. The partner cannot just say that and not gives dates, times and where they will be moving to either that will not go down well in court! Plus they haven’t asked for his permission just said ‘I’m giving you a heads up’ that also doesn’t sit well with judges either!

I’ve been guiding my dad as to a few initial questions to ask before we look at legal advice.

It clearly wasn’t her messaging back as my dad has shown me messages from her before, it was 100% her partner but they have said -

They’d come back once a year and my dad could have him that time if he wanted. They mentioned this would impact child maintenance which ‘could’ be discussed

They don’t know where it would be yet but my brother would have education equivalent to UK private school standard supporting all his needs (how can they say this if they don’t know what country they’re going to). It will be ‘far superior’ to his current schooling so they say.

They can’t tell my dad anything about her partner or her partner’s work (he’s on Linked in with his current job and all previous)

It’s a great opportunity for him to see and live somewhere else, not many kids get to do that was the quote

The new house would be provided by his work but they don’t know anything about that yet

She also messaged my dad saying not to tell my brother anything as he doesn’t know and this is why they wanted to suggest a coffee meeting, so they could answer any of his questions. Yet never have they ever made any effort to arrange a meeting before so my dad could actually meet this man and know who was involved in his life.

Thank you all for advice so far, it is appreciated!

Ok this is madness. Your dad can offer at this point to do mediation with his sons mum.

He needs to contact school and LA and say he does not give permission. Going from every other weekend snd regularly involvement to once a year is not ok.

Nor is refusing to say what country. Ie they shoukd say X country, this region, these are the schools we are looking at etc.

He will need to apply urgently for the child arrangements and prohibited steps

He could do it in a more truing ti be amenable and pleasant way offering mediation saying he wants to find out more. And he needs communication and details in emails. You could suggest a court approved coparenting app.

But what they are suggesting and how they are going about it is not ok.

Is there any way your dad can have his son over for dinner midweek? Or travel to him and take him out near his home to keep the routine etc. I am guessing mum will say no but if I was dad I would be looking to ask. Say more time with son and gives mum a break from caring respinsibilities.

It really does not sound like this move is in your brothers best intetests and if dad and all siblings are staying in UK that helps. Do siblings see their brother much?

My sister lives with him and the oldest lives in a different town as he was essentially kicked out by her due to not having enough room.

My dad did say to her at this point he doesn’t consent to him moving abroad and the response was that it’s okay, there’s no need for consent and they were trying to be nice about it.

I don't know the details, but there was a boy in DSs year at primary whose parents split up. He had autistic siblings. The children all lived with their mother originally and after she remarried and had another child. New husband is American, when they relocated she wasn't able to take the children from her first marriage with her. He think he took legal action. Honestly probs for the best in this case.

I would contact social services. This sounds odd and not in the child’s best interests. If he is in a special school then he is vulnerable and I would really be concerned that his needs have not really been factored into these plans in a sensible way. Is coercion involved?

Why does your dad need to stop this move? They could come to an arrangement where he has your brother during school holidays and the rest of the time he is abroad? Presumably it's a posting with an end date. If he's a civil servant (MI5 staff are civil servants) and he's posted to an embassy it's quite different from just moving abroad as a private individual. It's unlikely they could avoid allowing contact without risking his employment.

Per ChatGPT:

If your dad is named on the birth certificate (and the child was born after 1 December 2003 in England/Wales), he has parental responsibility.

That means:

• Your brother cannot be taken abroad permanently without his consent
• If she does it anyway, it can fall under child abduction law

This is covered by the about:blank Child Abduction Act 1984.

👉 Important distinction:

• Holidays (short trips) → usually allowed
• Relocating abroad (permanently) → requires consent of everyone with parental responsibility or a court order

This is an autistic child who attends a specialist school, does not fully understand the idea of living in another country snd seeing his dad less.

Dad has always been involved, sees him regularly is understanding and supportive of his needs.

Moving this child to another country, changing his school, disrupting routines snd established contact with dad is unlikely to be in his best interest. Particularly for a child of his age entering puberty with all the added difficulties thst can cause with autistic children. Particularly as he has less understanding.

If mum wants to go live in another country she can and maybe dad can have residency and she can visit. But she doesnt get to unilaterally decide to remove him from a specialist school and take him to a country away from his dad and all his siblings. Particularly if its for a short term placement ie 3 years that will be even more disruptive for him.

And will undoubtedly create issues when he comes back to the UK in terms of his ehcp and school placement.

There is a lot to consider here about what is in the childs best intetests.

Sorry, sounds a bit obvious but does your brother have a passport? If not I suggest that your dad applies for one and keeps it somewhere safe.er

I wonder if the country they are planning to relocate to is covered under the Hague convention.

Fathers4justice is a hotbed of angry, often abusive 'fathers'.
He'd do better to consult an independent family law advisor.

Your dad needs to apply to Court for a Prohibited Steps Order immediately. As this is urgent because you don't know when she plans to leave with your brother, they don't need to go to mediation. Complete the C100 form online, make the required payment and send it to the Court marked urgent. He will be able to get a Child Arrangement Order as well so that she can't keep withholding your brother if she doesnt get her own way. Regarding CMS, Courts dont deal with CMS but if you use the CMS calculator, you can work out how much he needs to pay each month based how often he has your brother according to the Court Order (he may need to send a copy of the Court Order to CMS). This will stop her being able to control your dad's CMS payments and contact with your brother. Good luck

There is nothing stopping him not returning child to his mum after the weekend visit. There is no court order. Police wouldn’t get involved etc because it’s a civil matter. My friend had this happen as in dad didn’t return children she had to pay for court herself because there was no lives with order the dad didn’t have to pay for anything. She did get a lives with order granted reluctantly but that’s because the dad is abusive and social had been involved. Otherwise due to the children’s age the judge said they wouldn’t normally grant one. I’m not saying that this is what he should do BUT it is an option. He can apply to court himself costs under £300 where he can get a court order and will be able to specify about not moving abroad, therefore if they were to ignore court order it would be abduction. If he were to do it himself it’s obvs much cheaper it cost my friend well over £15k with a solicitor. Xx

He can stop the child moving abroad, but he can’t stop his ex from moving.

If she still wanted to go his only option would be either to allow her to take the child or go for 100% custody himself to keep the child here.

Is he prepared to do that?

He might need a prohibited steps order to prevent her leaving the country. He would have to get this through the courts. She wouldn’t automatically be stopped at the airport if she is his mother. Once they’re gone it may be hard to get them back. Impossible if he doesn’t know where they are. Good luck

www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-c100-application-under-the-children-act-1989-for-a-child-arrangements-prohibited-steps-specific-issue-section-8-order-or-to-vary-or-discharge

He needs a solicitor- immediately. I have two step children that I take abroad. Their father and I both need their mother’s permission to take them abroad. Which we always have in writing. Full travel details are shared with their mum. She does the same when her and her husband travel with them. You cannot just take children out of the country.

Your dad definitely needs legal advice.

can you go meet your ex Step mum & her new partner & get the details so you can at least relay the facts of what they say to your dad?

ask mumsnet to move this from AIBU to the legal boards because 100% there will be people who have been through this.

Echoing those saying to urgently apply for a Prohibited Steps Order. He doesn't need a solicitor if he can't afford one. When considering a parent's wish to relocate with a child, the court will need to see a clear plan presented by that parent as to where they will be living, how the child's needs will be met etc. If they're unable to be clear about these details now it massively weakens their case. On the other hand, he needs to be willing and able to assume full time care of his son if the court was to grant his application, block the move and they decided to go anyway. This might seem hypothetical but it will really undermine his argument if he isn't able to offer an alternative (as the court can't prevent his ex-partner from going, only his son).

He needs to apply to the court for a prohibited steps order which you can do without paying a lawyer, he needs to fill in paperwork though. This goes to the family court.

Question, what branch of the civil service does the new man work for? This would help establish if he is lying or not.

As for the child moving overseas, legal advice will establish the facts and steps to prevent youngest from being moved overseas.