AIBU to think that women should think carefully about what they reveal at work?

[JumpingPumpkin]

Following on from the question about the emphasis on menopause at work which can make it sound as though women of a certain age are just a liability, I recently saw a work blog in which a woman (employee) explained exactly how tired she is and how hard it is to focus at work because she has two young children. I am flabbergasted that women are already so comfortable in the workplace that they can announce that they regularly turn up unfocused and tired but still expect to be paid and treated the same as men.

I'm not cold hearted, I understand that at times work is easier or harder depending on what else is going on. Sometimes your career is affected if you can't do the long on-site visits, and sometimes you have to drop everything for your child due to illness, but essentially the message the boss needs to hear is that you're capable of doing the job well.

We don't get paid just for turning up. Wages aren't just an attendance award. We need to actually do what we're paid for.

These were my thoughts exactly.

I have no doubt that DH used to complain in work about being knackered when DS was a baby with sleep apnea where we had to take shifts in order to make sure he was still breathing through the night.

It’s not ableist, it’s called being professional and maintaining some privacy and decorum.

I think everyone could do with being a lot more guarded at work.

I also find it’s people who are naive, idealistic and often quite vulnerable to begin with who are taken in by the whole ‘we’re a big happy family with your best interests at heart’ schtick peddled by corporate employers, and can’t see that the exhortations to talk openly about your mental health are little more than an invitation by companies to fuck your own career so that they don’t have to.

You’re selling your labour. That’s all your employer cares about. They will do what they need to in order not to get sued, but there is little in it for them to hang on to an employee who publicly proclaims that they’re not firing on all cylinders for whatever reason. And anyone who talks openly on the company intranet about their suicidal ideation or intrusive thoughts or struggles with addiction or whatever is going to find their career negatively impacted.

No, you just have a really negative view of women.

I lead a large team, 75% women and of those, the majority are 45+ years old. Its a progressive company, with generous sick pay and way above statutory paternity leave at full pay.

On the whole, the males have significantly more time off sick for (non work related) mental health than women (including 2 having long term sick leave after their babies were born due to lack of sleep although they are decent guys who do their share of parenting and support their wives, they're not sat gaming all day)

I have one female team member in her early 50s who spent about 2 years moaning about other women talking about perimenopause, just get on with it, never used to be like this, why do we even need a menopause policy bla bla bla - and then perimenopause hit her like a tonne of bricks and she ended up off sick for 6 months, with a bunch of accommodations when she returned.

Personally, I have a little more tolerance as understand not everyone's experiences are the same, and also having been diagnosed with early perimenopause in my mid 30s whilst working full time in a high pressure role whilst being a single parent of a disabled child...

I've lived most of that thanks, I don't need to read up about it. I am fully behind Flexi and family friendly working policies, it's the weird blogs that get me.

@JumpingPumpkin - please replace women with employees and get men to do their fair share of child care, dropping everything to pick up a sick child from nursery/ school, taking unpaid parental leave during school holidays, being tired because for the 6th time in as many days DC was up all night with whatever, ....

You could just scroll past.

I kind of agree, though it makes me sad to do so!

Workplaces still tend to be built on patriarchal assumptions. Strength = good, vulnerability = bad. I think the world would be a better place if it was possible to “bring your whole self to work” and if there was more general understanding that shit happens and we’re not robots. But that’s not the world we’re in and actually I think it’s going backwards with the worsening economic situation.

Women effectively saying women are unreliable as workers does undermine efforts to reduce discrimination. There has to be a better way to campaign for more human and more caring workplaces, more cooperation and less hierarchy, more substance and less show… Saying “the current workplace doesn’t fit women’s needs” should be a good argument for changing things but actually is more likely to result in pushback against working women. We need to start with more fundamental arguments about why profit is a poor measure of value, how to organize a whole society that actually makes people happier and more connected etc., argue for those values as beneficial for (almost) everyone.

One reason I think people are taking about this more is the sense of cognitive dissonance from how we’ve been told we can do anything men can do, we’re free to achieve anything, vs many women finding they underachieve (according to salary / status) compared to obviously less talented men. So we want to understand why, and part of the reason is inequality at home and different health needs (on average). So we want to talk about those things — partly to justify ourselves but also trying to make real the promises of equal opportunity for future women. And maybe we’ve forgotten sometimes how quickly this extremely patriarchal system will turn on us.

I really don't. I have a dim view of unprofessional women at work. Much like I have a dim view of unprofessional men.

💯 Probably the best ‘pause for thought’ post I’ve seen on MN. And even more relevant when considered from the POV of women who are self-employed. Off-days and sickies just don’t cut it. Jeez… my Mum never heard of peri ..

I’ve always said if I ever leave a job I’d never cite health issues or childcare issues in case they’re used against me.

The more women minimise and hide the realities of their lives, the less likely there is to be a change. And change is needed. Family friendly policies and flexi don’t even scratch the surface. In fact I’d argue that they make the situation worse by maintaining the status quo. Who is it that “benefits” from these initiatives- men that’s who, as women’s careers are put on hold because they are the default parent/career/cook and maid as well as working woman.

I think it’s that comments are perceived differently - DH could say he was tired after being up at night with kids and he would be perceived as being an amazing dad juggling it all. If I said it, the perception would be like yours.

Have you been through menopause? I actually went through it with no side effects as did my mum but lots of women really suffer. Tone deaf post

Don't read them then

I think there's a problem with staff thinking that hr are their friends and as a result they over share.Understandable when larger workplaces are providing information sessions on mental health, menopause etc.
I've worked with a man who is bi polar and his treatment in the workplace was savage, don't ever think the workplace is there to help you with your issues.

Of course. In fact, absolutely everyone should be careful about what they reveal at work. I really don't understand the need for so much oversharing.

You do. You took a blog about one individual woman and, instead of responding to what she actually wrote or the impression it gave you of her, you generalised it to all women.

I don’t see the link between not liking “bring yourself to work” and being ableist? My work place does not discriminate against people based on protected characteristics. I fully support that it’s an equal opportunity employer. I can support equality legislation and at the same time not like virtue signalling nonsense?

This in bucket loads.
Go and do your own thinking op. I'm not here to explain things to you. Apply some actual intelligent and critical thinking.

This. I don’t discuss my health - physical or mental - my politics, my family, my relationships or my sexuality at work.

HR are very good at pretending to be your friends when it suits them, not so much when it doesn’t.

A few years ago I decided that I would just act like a man at work: stop being so eager to please, skive when I fancied it, but totally talk myself up, fanny about reading the bbc website during working hours but make a big deal whenever I stayed late. And also unapologetically ask for higher salary than I deserved by swinging my big swinging dick about. It’s been bloody great. No one notices!!!

and I absolutely refuse
to do any of the bloody wife work whatsoever I