AIBU to think that women should think carefully about what they reveal at work?

[JumpingPumpkin]

Following on from the question about the emphasis on menopause at work which can make it sound as though women of a certain age are just a liability, I recently saw a work blog in which a woman (employee) explained exactly how tired she is and how hard it is to focus at work because she has two young children. I am flabbergasted that women are already so comfortable in the workplace that they can announce that they regularly turn up unfocused and tired but still expect to be paid and treated the same as men.

I'm not cold hearted, I understand that at times work is easier or harder depending on what else is going on. Sometimes your career is affected if you can't do the long on-site visits, and sometimes you have to drop everything for your child due to illness, but essentially the message the boss needs to hear is that you're capable of doing the job well.

We don't get paid just for turning up. Wages aren't just an attendance award. We need to actually do what we're paid for.

Well yes of course they are, but they don’t generally announce it to all and sundry.

How unashamedly ableist of you

You forgot dress nicely. Not too nicely, obviously; you don’t want to look like you are showing off or that you actually want attention…. but you also you should make an effort, right? For everyone’s sake.

I work with a man who has baby twins.

He doesn’t stop going on about how tired he is.

I think it’s fine to say how tired and unfocused you are, as long as it’s not actually impacting your job.

If it is, especially if it’s an ongoing thing, then it needs to be sorted like reducing your hours.

Of course they do! I've genuinely never noticed a difference between how much men and women complain at work. I have several male colleagues who are always going on about how knackered or hungover they are.

Please explain what you mean. I'm never a fan of labels in place of actual reasoned arguments.

Current UK policy is that everyone should be working no matter how vulnerable or unwell so ...lots more 'awareness' will be happening even if it's just by seeing the issues in colleagues without any speech

Oh yes, don’t look frumpy, you need to be pleasant to look at. But won’t be a whore either. Especially not at work. Unless you will actually put out, in which case it’s ok for a while. But if you aren’t you certainly can’t be offended about comments, because surely you were asking for it by showing your collar bone or ankles at work.

I don’t know anyone who goes on like this . Also I’m 39 and most of the women I work with are in the 45-60 age group. Menopause has never ever been discussed by any of us at work though I have no doubt some of my colleagues are going through it.

Yeah but they are tired because they are LADS. So that’s ok.

"I am flabbergasted that women are already so comfortable in the workplace that they can announce that..."

Pure misogyny

I agree with the OP.
I never kept family pics on my desk, or ever referred to being tired, etc.
But that was because I certainly did not want my job to discrimitate against me.
(yes, I know they are not supposed to, but it can happen in a covert way).

I don’t know… I work with someone who is very obviously getting her arse kicked by menopause. It is making her life hell. Not just frequent, repeated hot flushes. She is experiencing extreme anxiety, making questionable choices - spontaneous and unaccountable, she is having extreme allergy symptoms (as well as the flashes) and rather obvious facial hair.

She is not remotely open about her well-being but is so very chaotic that she is getting a reputation for being chaotic and unprofessional. She’s a lovely person and is very experienced at her job, but the way she is going I would be surprised if she managed to retain her position unless she finds something that works for her.

That’s all well and good, but sometimes NOTHING works! I don’t know her well enough to ask her about it, but I am genuinely concerned for her physical and mental well-being. Shouldn’t she be offered some kind of job security or assistance if nothing works for her?

Be a lady they said. Your skirt is too short. Your shirt is too low. Your pants are too tight. Don’t show so much skin. Don’t show your thighs. Don’t show your breasts. Don’t show your midriff. Don’t show your cleavage. Don’t show your underwear. Don’t show your shoulders. Cover up. Leave something to the imagination. Dress modestly. Don’t be a temptress. Men can’t control themselves. Men have needs. You look frumpy. Loosen up. Show some skin. Look sexy. Look hot. Don’t be so provocative. You’re asking for it. Wear black. Wear heels. You’re too dressed up. You’re too dressed down. Don’t wear those sweatpants; you look like you’ve let yourself go.
Be a lady they said. Don’t be too fat. Don’t be too thin. Don’t be too large. Don’t be too small. Eat up. Slim down. Stop eating so much. Don’t eat too fast. Order a salad. Don’t eat carbs. Skip dessert. You need to lose weight. Fit into that dress. Go on a diet. Watch what you eat. Eat celery. Chew gum. Drink lots of water. You have to fit into those jeans. God, you look like a skeleton. Why don’t you just eat? You look emaciated. You look sick. Eat a burger. Men like women with some meat on their bones. Be small. Be light. Be little. Be petite. Be feminine. Be a size zero. Be a double zero. Be nothing. Be less than nothing.
Be a lady they said. Remove your body hair. Shave your legs. Shave your armpits. Shave your bikini line. Wax your face. Wax your arms. Wax your eyebrows. Get rid of your mustache. Bleach this. Bleach that. Lighten your skin. Tan your skin. Eradicate your scars. Cover your stretch marks. Tighten your abs. Plump your lips. Botox your wrinkles. Lift your face. Tuck your tummy. Thin your thighs. Tone your calves. Perk up your boobs. Look natural. Be yourself. Be genuine. Be confident. You’re trying too hard. You look overdone. Men don’t like girls who try too hard.
Be a lady they said. Wear makeup. Prime your face. Conceal your blemishes. Contour your nose. Highlight your cheekbones. Line your lids. Fill in your brows. Lengthen your lashes. Color your lips. Powder, blush, bronze, highlight. Your hair is too short. Your hair is too long. Your ends are split. Highlight your hair. Your roots are showing. Dye your hair. Not blue, that looks unnatural. You’re going grey. You look so old. Look young. Look youthful. Look ageless. Don’t get old. Women don’t get old. Old is ugly. Men don’t like ugly.
Be a lady they said. Save yourself. Be pure. Be virginal. Don’t talk about sex. Don’t flirt. Don’t be a skank. Don’t be a whore. Don’t sleep around. Don’t lose your dignity. Don’t have sex with too many men. Don’t give yourself away. Men don’t like sluts. Don’t be a prude. Don’t be so up tight. Have a little fun. Smile more. Pleasure men. Be experienced. Be sexual. Be innocent. Be dirty. Be virginal. Be sexy. Be the cool girl. Don’t be like the other girls.
Be a lady they said. Don’t talk too loud. Don’t talk too much. Don’t take up space. Don’t sit like that. Don’t stand like that. Don’t be intimidating. Why are you so miserable? Don’t be a bitch. Don’t be so bossy. Don’t be assertive. Don’t overact. Don’t be so emotional. Don’t cry. Don’t yell. Don’t swear. Be passive. Be obedient. Endure the pain. Be pleasing. Don’t complain. Let him down easy. Boost his ego. Make him fall for you. Men want what they can’t have. Don’t give yourself away. Make him work for it. Men love the chase. Fold his clothes. Cook his dinner. Keep him happy. That’s a woman’s job. You’ll make a good wife some day. Take his last name. You hyphenated your name? Crazy feminist. Give him children. You don’t want children? You will some day. You’ll change your mind.
Be a lady they said. Don’t get raped. Protect yourself. Don’t drink too much. Don’t walk alone. Don’t go out too late. Don’t dress like that. Don’t show too much. Don’t get drunk. Don’t leave your drink. Have a buddy. Walk where it is well lit. Stay in the safe neighborhoods. Tell someone where you’re going. Bring pepper spray. Buy a rape whistle. Hold your keys like a weapon. Take a self-defense course. Check your trunk. Lock your doors. Don’t go out alone. Don’t make eye contact. Don’t bat your eyelashes. Don’t look easy. Don’t attract attention. Don’t work late. Don’t crack dirty jokes. Don’t smile at strangers. Don’t go out at night. Don’t trust anyone. Don’t say yes. Don’t say no.
Just “be a lady” they said.

-Camille Rainville

You appear to live in a different world, with preconceived ideas of what women are like in the work place.

For those commenting about men stating how tired they are due to children, how hungover they are, how distracted by their office affair etc. When I see a work blog written by a man about how much these things affect his focus I'll consider this a parallel scenario. Maybe in other companies men do write such blogs.

Perhaps these women feel comfortable enough in the work place to admit to a temporary period of extreme tiredness because they are highly valued professionals who know their worth. There will be women in the workplace who on no sleep at all could out perform some of their male colleagues.
It isn't concealing tiredness that results in women being paid the same as men. It's producing outcomes that equal (or exceed) those of male colleagues, so employers consider them worth their salary.

Just to add, you do realise that just because you read something it doesn’t make it true.

Me neither. But I’m responding to what people on this thread have seen. Women writing blogs about tiredness due to children and menopause training vs men saying they have hangovers etc.

I think as a society we should be trying to make work and working more family friendly, not less. I’m sometimes tired because I’ve been caring for my mother and my boss understands. I’m grateful for the flexibility, and I’ll give back what I’ve taken. When my kids were young it wasn’t like that, I had to pretend I wasn’t a parent, I missed Birthday parties, sports, awards … it was hard and it made me unwell. It shouldn’t be a race to the bottom, because the prizes are crap.

I certainly seem to have hit a nerve by suggesting that women's professional blogs at work should be professional!

Blimey.

Can I add "and don't question whether women are ever not perfect" to that long list of demands of what a woman is supposed to be like. 😂

Look op in reality you are probably right. Women probably will be discriminated against for the reasons you say if they talk to loudly.

but what strikes me as weird is you think it’s them talking about these things that is the issue. Not the social and structural misogyny that makes these things issues for women in the first place. You are blaming the women. Blame the bloody husbands that aren’t doing their share so the mums have to always look after the sick kids at night so they can go into work fresh and “work like men” while their wives can’t! Or the doctors that have do decades ignored women’s medical issues so women feel they have to hide why can be pretty horrendous for many.

I do rather resent the expectation that I'll pick up the slack or step in for colleagues with young families. I don't mind covering when necessary but it needs to be appreciated as the favour it is, and not as something that won't be a problem for me.

The big fuss being made over menopause worries me, too. It just gives employers one more reason to think that hiring a women in her late 40s/early 50s might be more hassle than it's worth; some of what I read implies that a woman going through menopause is going to be unfit to go into the office half the time, and it'll be an extra cost to hire in temporary help.

Maybe these women are trying to raise awareness so that those things are understood and not taboo? To give other women some comfort that they aren’t alone.

@JumpingPumpkin
go away and read up on the double burden faced by women. Look at the stats on gendered roles within the household and the disproportionate amount of work women do compared to men.

go away and think about how caring defaults to the woman- whether that’s children or aging parents.
go away and think about how men always carve out time for their hobbies - leaving women to pick up the slack.
go away and think about how women’s health and education opportunities are limited due to the double burden of working inside and outside of the home.
In fact, just go away and don’t come back here with your misogynist mindset and pseudo-capitalist bullshit.