AIBU to question my friend's daughter effectively moving in with us?

[thesunisnearlyhere]

This is a long winded one and I will try not to drip feed.

my childhood friend is having some major issues at the moment although I have sort of lost sympathy over time. Let’s call her Sarah.

Sarah and I grew up in the same area and went to school with eachother from the age of 4 until 16.
she eventually has children with a mutual friend we had growing up who was always “ trouble “
I had my own kids with someone not from the local area and our lives are very different. We have always remained friends though.
she now has 3 kids and I have 4 kids.
the relationship between her and “ Steve “ has always been toxic. She throws him out every other week but his never changed I got tired over 10 years supporting her when he was always allowed back.
we both have daughters who are now in secondary school.
life has not changed for her one bit and still on the rotation of kicking DP out and having explosive fights every other week.
drugs, alcohol and the rest of it.
her teen daughter who is lovely has spent more and more time at our house.
I won’t let my DD around there and so they spend most of there time at mine. This gradually turned in to her being here over the weekends all the time and never going home during a school holiday.
last week after school broke up there was another huge fight, I went and picked up all the children and in the end and bought them back to mine.
I rang social services the 2 younger children are currently now at their aunts house and the eldest is still with me. Apparently social services are pretty useless and the younger 2 are returning home. The eldest is refusing and wants to remain here. The social services at this point don’t seem very bothered about her staying here and are coming for anoher visit on Wednesday.
Sarah has basically said keep her - she got us in to this mess. She seems to be blaming eldest for the social involvement because she rang my daughters phone that night.
she says she loves her but that she clearly doesn’t want to come home so she can just stay here.
surely it’s not that simple and social work just let her move in here with us ?
It seems a big responsibility to have another child who is not mine just move in.
social services have visited and made sure she is safe and coming against Wednesday but what happens next ?

Oh op what a horrible situation for the dc sarah is obviously more bothered about Steve than her own dd. I couldn’t ever give up my dc for a bloke even if he was the dad. Kids come first always. Op have you spoke to sarah away from the house to say you do realise your picking a man over the 3 kids can she be talked around what would she do if you said no you are her mum. Op the kid probably sees your household and thinks this is so much better than home. She knows she would love to live here and that’s why she’s not too bothered because she knows you will take care of her and she wouldn’t have to watch the fights it is scary watching anyone fight but to see it every week is awful.

we have had many conversations from as young as the girls being 1 ! The thing is about her and Steve is they are so alike, so tocix now don’t get me wrong he edges on being worse but the fights are not always him. Theres just a lot of alcohol and a lot of coke !
When I say we have stayed friends we are not friends who say go out for the night or have dinner with eachother. When we were younger we were very close friends so I suppose although our lives took different turns I never felt like abandoning her completely.
the girls ended up in the same school and formed their own friendship.

what I can say that will change despite trying for 10 years. She loves the children and I know that. She just has got her self on a rollercoaster that goes around and around.

Well this is one of my concerns I mean taking in one 12 year old is one thing but what is the younger ones also need somewhere. Surely wouldn’t be able to split them up.
I couldn’t imagine my children being seperated
Of course they can split them up if there are no placements that can take siblings.
Our service can barely find foster carers for one or an emergency foster placement.

Honestly I your shoes I would not take on the responsibility. It may be OK during the honeymoon period but what if she doesn't want to follow your rules, what if she influences your dd?
What if parents dont contribute?
A bed for a few nights is completely different to having a private fostering agreement.

Personally I'd leave it to children's social care to sort out. They are used to situations like this. Your own family is the priority.

You can remain in contact with the child and offer regular contact which might be worth considering as she will at least have sone positive consistency in her life without you having the responsibility of a near teen.

To the person saying that it will result in resentment from DD that isn't necessarily the case. My best friend growing up suddenly had another girl in our class living with her. They were friendly but it very quickly went from her friend staying over type vibe to the other girl just being a normal family member. She'd be doing her thing. Might join us for sleepovers in the living room, might not.
They shared a bedroom (along with another sister) because that was how much room they had. It was better than the situation the child had been in previously and better than the foster care option the child's siblings were experiencing. I would do the same for a child locally if I thought it was the best option for them. I would have talks with ss about support for us should the child's parents get aggressive with us adults and I would talk to the school about support available to the child there via pupil premium, Sutton trust etc. Hopefully though you will incur costs feeding her, you won't have to conjure up money for two of each school trip.

That is a shame op I have known people like this and I’ve never understood how they cannot do it for the kids. I hope if you do decide to take her in she stays as nice as she seems now. Unfortunately the girls could fallout living on top of each other and this would not be good especially when hormones and boys kick in. I feel for you and Sarah's kids either way no one’s a winner in this situation. I would be speaking to all of your kids individually to see how they all feel as if you do it as a group they might feel pressured to say yes. It’s a life changing decision for you all. How does your dh feel about it.

There is no such thing as private fostering now

I wouldn't I'm afraid, given her age and the history and your current family commitments and responsibilities. SS need to step in and step up. It sounds fine atm, everyone is getting along but in a year or two, when the novelty wears off (for everyone) when her teenage hormones have properly kicked in, what happens then? Spending weekends and holidays with you is different to parenting and disciplining her, especially given her difficult childhood. She would be better placed with a neutral foster carer. I'm sorry if that sounds cold - I'm really not, but you have 4 children of your own to consider and this might not be the best thing for them.

Just to add, I'm basing my previous response on personal experience - I know everyone is different. In my friends case, her son's friend moved in with them in similar circumstances. The boy had a toxic relationship with his mum, kept going back to stay with her, then returning even more messed up because of his mum's behaviour. He was lovely aged 11 but became rude, surly and aggressive. She couldn't discipline him because as he told her 'he didn't have to listen to her', the boys friendship changed over time as friendships do, and younger family members suffered because of his behaviour. All children can become PITA teenagers but it's different when its your own biological child.

Children are expensive and teenagers even more so. If you commit to taking this child on, where does it stop, are you paying their food? Travel? Clothes, uniform, shoes? New phones? Laptop? School trips? Will you have to buy them whatever you buy your own child as presents? What about going forwards…putting them through driving lessons (£350 for 10) and then beyond…university is eye-wateringly expensive. It shouldn’t be on you to have to fund this.

I have made no decisions
but yes if we did “ take her in “
then we would of course accept responsibility for giving her the love our own children have otherwise I wouldn’t even consider it.

Your a wonderful person op and sound ready and capable, please don't let posters discourage you. The girl deserves a chance. Only if you feel able of course.

No one said op has to pay for university. Why does it have to be all or nothing? A very young child needs support in the present.

I’m not sure I would pay for my own kids driving lessons either 🤣 maybe I’m a bit strict hahah

It's actually also my job so really no need to be so rude! I know what I'm talking about as well. It may just be different in different LAs like I said!

But the information you shared is incorrect and not helpful to the op. The PF framework is nation wide as it’s part of the children act so whilst there may be some variances in the la, they are all following the same legislation. I am a social worker who completes PF assessments so I know what I am talking about but you seem determined to prove me wrong

Put your own children first and work out what is best for you and your family. If you don't want the girl to live with you she can go to her Aunts with her siblings. I wouldn't have anything more to do with your friend, she sounds a disgrace.

The other question is of parental responsibility
who legally has this? If something happened to her say medically who makes the decision? Poor child and you are amazing too for what you are doing and have done

in terms of my DP - his an extremely laid back person who is sort of like it’s a no brainer where as I’m more of a ok we need to think this through !

Horrifically high, unfortunately.

I find it astonishing. The things these children including the middle ( not the youngest ) disclosed last week I couldn’t imagine them ever going back.
I do know I need to seperate emotions from it though.
its so hard when you think of your own children and the thought of them being treated that way.

my DP would take them all given half the chance 🫣 but I want to make sure we are thinking about it practically to and make sure 100 percent it’s something we can do.

I will wait until Wednesday and see where everything is at because I suppose more would be known by then about whether any of the children are returning home.

Social services will let you take on all the financial responsibility while directing everything from the wings. I had all that and no financial support

You must negotiate an allowance if you decide to continue to care for the child

I will discuss finances but that is not really my main concern. Financially we would be fine either way but of course it’s always helpful to have financial support if possible.

You sound so lovely. I’m glad this girl has you in her life, whether or not you’re able to take her in longer term.

It’s expensive to take on another child, seems like you can manage that. It’s potentially a risk either way to your friendship with Sarah but from what you’ve described that’s really not much loss. So for me the biggest concern would be to include your own dd in the decision as far as possible.

I think an earlier poster was highlighting future scenarios where your dd would come to resent you and / or the situation. At 12 your dd won’t understand everything but hopefully you can have an honest conversation about what would happen if they fell out and the other girl couldn’t just go home. Let her know it’s not a foregone conclusion and she wouldn’t be bad to object to having the friend move in, but also that it would be hard to undo the decision later. A friend who stays over a lot is totally different from having basically another sibling, but that probably won’t be obvious to dd without explicit discussion of the implications for her.

It’s not as simple as that though as student loans are based on household income so in a blended family where the biological parents live separately one of their incomes isn’t taken into consideration at all but if you live with a partner and your child that income is counted.

So this child could end up not getting a maintenance loan because of the household income.

I have no real advice here but I was 13 when I moved in with my friends family. Her mum will always have a special place in my heart for the kindness she showed me. No matter what you decide I'm sure she will feel the same about you.