AIBU to question my friend's daughter effectively moving in with us?

[thesunisnearlyhere]

This is a long winded one and I will try not to drip feed.

my childhood friend is having some major issues at the moment although I have sort of lost sympathy over time. Let’s call her Sarah.

Sarah and I grew up in the same area and went to school with eachother from the age of 4 until 16.
she eventually has children with a mutual friend we had growing up who was always “ trouble “
I had my own kids with someone not from the local area and our lives are very different. We have always remained friends though.
she now has 3 kids and I have 4 kids.
the relationship between her and “ Steve “ has always been toxic. She throws him out every other week but his never changed I got tired over 10 years supporting her when he was always allowed back.
we both have daughters who are now in secondary school.
life has not changed for her one bit and still on the rotation of kicking DP out and having explosive fights every other week.
drugs, alcohol and the rest of it.
her teen daughter who is lovely has spent more and more time at our house.
I won’t let my DD around there and so they spend most of there time at mine. This gradually turned in to her being here over the weekends all the time and never going home during a school holiday.
last week after school broke up there was another huge fight, I went and picked up all the children and in the end and bought them back to mine.
I rang social services the 2 younger children are currently now at their aunts house and the eldest is still with me. Apparently social services are pretty useless and the younger 2 are returning home. The eldest is refusing and wants to remain here. The social services at this point don’t seem very bothered about her staying here and are coming for anoher visit on Wednesday.
Sarah has basically said keep her - she got us in to this mess. She seems to be blaming eldest for the social involvement because she rang my daughters phone that night.
she says she loves her but that she clearly doesn’t want to come home so she can just stay here.
surely it’s not that simple and social work just let her move in here with us ?
It seems a big responsibility to have another child who is not mine just move in.
social services have visited and made sure she is safe and coming against Wednesday but what happens next ?

I can't help but think that theres going to be a problem if she wants to go to uni and everything about finances isn't absolutely nailed down. Just knowing that could substantially affect how she relates to your children and her education as i that starts being something a lot more real in her future.

As someone who came from a very toxic family home and basically lived at friends homes, I just want to say thank you and how amazing I think you are.
You have no idea how important that safe space is for a child.

However, she is not your responsibility and it’s not fair that her mum and SS get to wipe their hands off her, knowing that you’ll pick up the slack.

Keep her with you for the holidays but make sure she goes back to her mums afterwards.

You need to calm your ‘friend’ out on what a shit mother she is and how she needs to stop putting her vagina above her own kids.

SS need to be involved and so you need to report as often as you need to.
You also need to make the school aware of everything and so that they can keep an eye on things too.

Tell the girl that she is always welcome at yours but that she has to live with her mum because she is the one with parental responsibility.

Much, much higher than the average person would think.
There must be real evidence of harm or likely harm.
I have seen children stay in awful situations sadly.

Oh Jesus poor thing :(

I'm really sorry to say, the threshold for social services removing children from their mothers care is extraordinary high (regarding the younger ones). It's absolutely heartbreaking. I've been through it with my younger siblings, mostly my youngest one who was just a toddler at the time. My mum was an addict who had been charged with neglect, drunk in charge with a minor, assault on police etc MANY times, each time they would go and take photos of the state of the house which was unbelievable, and it was enough for her to come to me temporarily, but then they would have to give her back to my mum again. I fought through the courts to get legal guardianship of my yougest sister for years, basically from her birth, and eventually got it when she was 4.5 years old.
I get less money for her this way then when I fostered her, which is something that you should try and push for, because it will give you more support and if she needs uniform, a new bed etc, you can put in that request plus you get an extra payment for Christmas and birthdays which is helpful.

I'm sure in the future not only will this child be grateful to you, but your daughter will too, opening your home and your heart is a beautiful thing to do.

While this is noble of you op, you need to think further down the line. What happens when shes 14/15 raging hormones and struggling. You wont escape it so what will you do when if she really goes off the rails and is traumatising your own children with her behaviour? This is a real possibility given the upbringing shes had so far. I couldn't prioritise her over my own children and their futures as hard as the decision might be. Yes she seems happy now but she's a child and can't call the shots on this one. Do you really want to subject your own children to years of ss involvement. You're being incredibly oblivious to all this.

Don't do this op for your own dd's sake. What if they fall out? Your dd won't want to share her home parents and resources with her friend.

doesn't your dd have her own friends? what does your visitor do when your dd is out meeting her friends? same school?

OP, I am in a similar situation.

You're lovely but you're not taking in the warnings from posters about how very psychologically and emotionally complicated (and damaging) this could get.

DD grows apart from friend - DD deeply resents you
DD grows apart from friend - sees you are still being nice to friend - DD feels replaced by friend and deeply resents you
Friend forced to accept unkindness from DD because otherwise thrown back to the wolves - DD learns that bullying works, after therapy in 20s deeply resents you
Friend become 'bad' teenager (within normal limits) taking all your attention - DD deeply resents you.
DD becomes 'bad' teenager (wnl) and friend, believing she will be less vulnerable to abandonment if she pleases you, leverages that in one way or another. DD deeply resents you.
DD fees unsure about difference between your relationship with her and friend, and you can't keep sayiing 'I love you more than her' - DD deeply resents you
DD becomes 'bad' teenager (within normal limits) but friend doesn't - DD feels you wish friend had been your DD and deeply resents you.

I could probably think of 10 more just on that theme alone, and that's before you bring in drunk Sarah knocking on your door at midnight demanding her DD back, sitting on the kerb bawling while her druggy DP comes round the side alley banging on the windows and threatening to call his mates. The other DC will suffer one way or another from the increased drama, whatever happens.

Family dynamics are really, really complicated and really, really not to be fucked with lightly. I don't think you can possibly make this decision without having a really clear 'therapy language' understanding of the possible outcomes and how you might (might) be able to offset them.

Whilst I agree with your first part of OP loves this colds as I suspect she would she wouldn’t want her in foster care where she’ll probably have half a dozen placements in the next 4 years then go into some form of independent living.
I hope she can do it without any negative consequences for her own kids. I remember my parents letting my brothers girlfriend move in she must have been about 16, had her own room was family, she was a joy, she kept a room when they broke up until she was ready for uni. Still occasionally sees my parents 30+ years on. 12 is very young to do it, but I’d hope it can work out.

Go to Buttle UK, see if you can organise a funded boarding school place and she can stay with you in the holidays. Keeps her out of care, boarding has way better outcomes and she carries on as before in holidays.

She clearly craves the stability of your family and you are happy to have her, so just keep doing what you are doing until Wednesday and then make a plan with social services that works for your family.

One thing you should be aware of is by doing a PF assessment, you aren’t committing yourself to anything. All it is for is to ensure you are safe enough for the young person to stay with. You can at any point say you don’t want to continue and the child will then have to return to their mother. The PF framework isn’t intended as a long term plan for a child more just as a brief safety check to make sure the child is safe

Do it officially. Request an SGO and make it clear you expect payment. Most local authorities now pay sgo holders the wage element foster carers get. So depending where you live you could be entitled to approx 1k a month. They might fob you off and try to say its a private arrangement and unpaid. But if the child's refusing to return home then social have a responsibility.

to the person who said why did we call social services.

we called the police, the police and I both informed social services and then I spoke to them when discussing where eldest was.

I called the police because when on the phone you could here things becoming physical between “ Sarah” and “‘Steve “
there was a 12 year and 2 young children in the house. I did not know what escalation was going to occur so called the police before I left.

You were definitely right to call the police/social care. I does sound like a concerning situation for all of the children ☹️

I don’t know what the answer is OP but unless it’s detrimental to your family let her stay.
my sisters friend was being physically abused by her dad (not sexually but pretty violent) l and ended up living with us for over a year. She was older and was able to move into social housing eventually, but she would probably say it saved her life. You can’t fix it for them all, and that’s not your responsibility, but if you can help this girl I am sure she will be very grateful.

I am understanding them and I am taking them all in. This isn’t a decision to be made in a day and all has to be looked at and discussed.
I just feel bad judging the girl on circumstances that have not happened which is hard to do.
or judging her on things that could easily happen between my own children anyway !
like the stuff about her becoming a bad trenager because of her life - it feels like given up on someone before they have ever showed any issues
but I understand that it can be a problem. In my head I’m looking at a poor girl who I’ve known her whole life.

it’s not something that I’m going to decide on straight away - there is a lot of thinking and talking to be had.

I think she would be able to share a room with a long term friend of the same sex.

You are lovely to be accommodating the girl and I hope it can be put on an official footing for now, as long as you and your family are happy about it.

OP I know you mean well, but this is not your problem.

You already have 4 kids and you need to concentrate on them.

What if the father of this child (who you describe as "trouble") wants to visit her? Do you really want that bad influence in your home?

It's "No" from me.

Lots of diabolical warnings of risks.
But ... what if it all worked out?
The girls didn't fall out?
It didn't particularly affect your family dynamic or household bills?
There wasn't any more drama?
Your DD, her friend and your other kids all got their GCSEs and went on to succeed in life?
Whatever you decide to do you after you weigh up all the risks, you sound like a good person, trying to do the right thing in complicated circumstances

I think you can be considered as a Kinship carer. Not sure of the details but have a feeling it is quicker and you’ll get some financial support x

A friend did similar with her child's friend. Fought the LA to try to get support or a formal arrangement in place, never got a penny - the child was older though (15 I think) which may have made a difference.

I knew a friend who was in the same situation too with a child in the same age bracket. I cannot remember the exact circumstances but I know there were times with it was very rocky. But the children involved are now adults and very close.

I have no advice to offer to the OP, but I do think that the post by @thestudio is an excellent one.

Try contacting family rights group for some advice. This will help you to make an informed decision.