AIBU to question my friend's daughter effectively moving in with us?

[thesunisnearlyhere]

This is a long winded one and I will try not to drip feed.

my childhood friend is having some major issues at the moment although I have sort of lost sympathy over time. Let’s call her Sarah.

Sarah and I grew up in the same area and went to school with eachother from the age of 4 until 16.
she eventually has children with a mutual friend we had growing up who was always “ trouble “
I had my own kids with someone not from the local area and our lives are very different. We have always remained friends though.
she now has 3 kids and I have 4 kids.
the relationship between her and “ Steve “ has always been toxic. She throws him out every other week but his never changed I got tired over 10 years supporting her when he was always allowed back.
we both have daughters who are now in secondary school.
life has not changed for her one bit and still on the rotation of kicking DP out and having explosive fights every other week.
drugs, alcohol and the rest of it.
her teen daughter who is lovely has spent more and more time at our house.
I won’t let my DD around there and so they spend most of there time at mine. This gradually turned in to her being here over the weekends all the time and never going home during a school holiday.
last week after school broke up there was another huge fight, I went and picked up all the children and in the end and bought them back to mine.
I rang social services the 2 younger children are currently now at their aunts house and the eldest is still with me. Apparently social services are pretty useless and the younger 2 are returning home. The eldest is refusing and wants to remain here. The social services at this point don’t seem very bothered about her staying here and are coming for anoher visit on Wednesday.
Sarah has basically said keep her - she got us in to this mess. She seems to be blaming eldest for the social involvement because she rang my daughters phone that night.
she says she loves her but that she clearly doesn’t want to come home so she can just stay here.
surely it’s not that simple and social work just let her move in here with us ?
It seems a big responsibility to have another child who is not mine just move in.
social services have visited and made sure she is safe and coming against Wednesday but what happens next ?

Social will spilt siblings up, they do it all the time. They will need to assess you & your husband and your home to make sure its suitable its correct they would expect her to have her own room though do you have a closed off dining room?

I wouldn't be taking another child into my home under a private fostering arrangement. Social Services will think they've hit the jackpot with you and the Aunt both looking after the children for free.

Staying at your house for a few days and weeks will be very different to living with you permanently and you haven't hit the hormonal teenage years yet.

Your family must come first.

I'd keep her. But we're in the process of becoming foster parents so it is something I would personally do. If it's done properly though social services you should get financial support. She's the same age as yours, i don't think they'd have an issue with her sharing, it's better than them finding her somewhere else.

She goes to the same school, knows and gets along with your kids. You're used to her, she's used to you. She can still have contact with her mum since you're friends. She's quite an independent age.

back ground checks will be fine.
financially stable but not rich.
house is a fairly decent size but at the moment she is with DD. I would need to re arrange to make that work.

My other children are 7 nearly 4 and coming up to 1.

It very much depends on if you’re happy with the 12 year old staying with you. It sounds like you already have a house full. Is this best for everyone, particularly if there’s a willing family member? I’m sure the 12 year old is loving the ongoing sleepover but ultimately, what is best for her?

I’m sure your friend is more than happy someone else is actually parenting the poor girl.

Does your friend receive benefits for her child because I bet you she’ll be wanting her back if that was to stop or she was bedroom taxed due to child not being there.

I can't believe her DM is content to wash her hands of her DD. Has she spoken to you about plans for her DD going forward? Has she asked to see her DD? Does she seem content with the situation currently ? Is she aware of what an impact this has on your family?
She can't just leave everything to you, you've got to discuss her plans going forward - she needs to offer financial support. Surely she can't just offload her parenting responsibilities to others?

People, as evidenced from this thread, really dont know what private fostering arrangements are

It is a private arrangement between two people, one who has PR, who is delegating the care of their child to a non relative (there are categories of this, but its too long winded to go into)

So the neighbour/friend etc has to agree that they are now going care for that child on behalf of the parent or person with PR

Have you done that OP

If you have agreed to this, then SSD will come to assess that to determine is not a Climbe situation, then you'll be left to get on with it more or less. There is a requirement to visit the child, DBS checks will be completed, an assessment of your capacity to meet need. The parent should change the child benefit over so you can make a claim, SSD will oversee it to some degree but its not an arrnagement made by them or set up by them, its not a 'placement'.

Private fostering, in my view, is best served when there has been a long standing 'parental' role from the private fosterer or they are an extremely significant person to the child

As someone points out above, you're not 'parenting' her where she is at yours, its game playing, staying over, hanging out. What would that look like as a permanent thing?

oh wow so full house already then! Just make sure it’s whats best for her, she’s going to be hormonal and when it eventually hits she’ll have a lot of anger towards her mother. If you keep her you cannot keep the friendship.

You could look after her under a private foster arrangement. If you think things are really bad at home though you could really try and push SS as to what they are going to do about the other children.
You could give them all the details as to what you’ve seen going on and how that translates to neglect. Point out that Sarah has got herself out of that situation but the others are too young to do this themselves. Tell them how bad Sarah has said it’s been. They should be looking at the very least at child in need plans and more realistically child protection plans. Ideally they’d decide that the children shouldn’t be there and then they should be assessing you as a carer with potential entitlement to financial support. They won’t want to do this but it may be that things are bad enough they should be.

They have had no contact for the last week.
she just says keep her.
the issue is like clockwork dad will
be home by Monday.
chaos will descend by the following weekend.

Yes, that’s another thing op if she stays with you you need to make sure the child benefit etc are transferred into your name. No doubt that will annoy her mother.

It may seem an obvious question, but do you want to take her on full-time. Ie permanently? Like forever? You already have four other children in the household, with varying needs. There’s five children in the equation, not one, and you have to consider them all, not just now, but long term.

There’s another thread running whereby someone’s partner is taking on his nephew, in almost similar circumstances (ie, irresponsible mother) - young children involved. It may be worth a read as there some good advice on there.

What did you say when your friend said 'keep her' ? Surely you challenged her that this is not a permanent situation? Is she really that cold hearted about her own DD?

It sounds like it will work well at the moment. However I'd be worried that it only works because your daughter and her are good friends. What if this changes in the future? They're at an age where friendship groups can change massively. What happens if they drift apart or fall out or one of them starts hanging around with friends the other one hates and wants them over? I think your daughter needs to think this through as well

I mean we have had a fairly big argument but ultimately what can I say to her ?
I know she loves the children - I really do but they have never had any form of stability and I have had about enough of the Constant it’s not my fault.

You are wonderful, OP. Surely the friendship is over now though, because you have completely different values. And she is clearly an idiot.

I suppose all I can really do for now is wait until Wednesday. Give her a safe place until then and see what SS say when they come back.

If she does Sounds like she’s probably only receiving support from UC for 2 out the 3 children so it’ll be just the child benefit she’d lose and possibly bedroom taxed.

Her 12 year old won’t be pushing back against what she rightly sees as insufficient parenting and a safe loving home.

I really feel for the young girl in this and her siblings. She knows the environment isn’t good but is probably worried about her siblings too.

One thing to consider is your own 12 yo dd. I believe in a fostering situation they wouldn’t normally give you a kid the same age as one of your own. My dd completely changed her friendship group from age 12 to age 13.

So what happens if the girls are sharing a room at your house, but at school they drift apart and indeed really aren’t friends at all any more? Worse - what if they fall out? It happens. It’s one thing to hang out with someone - lovely - it’s another to understand this person is now effectively a full time member of the family.

I think it could be a really difficult situation for your dd. She could be put in such an awkward spot.

On the other hand there is also a chance it will work absolutely brilliantly. It is so hard to predict.

In conclusion:I don’t think I would do this unless the foster child had their own bedroom.

I wonder if the girl is fostered formally - does much really have to change? The girl can still come to your house after school /holidays / weekends.

We always have done - I suppose we stayed friends out of loyalty rather than much in common.

There is the option to apply for an SGO once the child has been living there for 12 months. This is a much more formal arrangement and will require a full kinship assessment but it would give the carer PR and might mean she is entitled to financial support from the LA. If it were done as a private application (as would likely be the case in this situation) it would need the consent of both parents

I would assume they don’t have bedroom tax. They live in a 2 bed flat.

make sure the social workers also know the mother blames the 12 year old for all this. That child is not safe to return.