AIBU to question my friend's daughter effectively moving in with us?

[thesunisnearlyhere]

This is a long winded one and I will try not to drip feed.

my childhood friend is having some major issues at the moment although I have sort of lost sympathy over time. Let’s call her Sarah.

Sarah and I grew up in the same area and went to school with eachother from the age of 4 until 16.
she eventually has children with a mutual friend we had growing up who was always “ trouble “
I had my own kids with someone not from the local area and our lives are very different. We have always remained friends though.
she now has 3 kids and I have 4 kids.
the relationship between her and “ Steve “ has always been toxic. She throws him out every other week but his never changed I got tired over 10 years supporting her when he was always allowed back.
we both have daughters who are now in secondary school.
life has not changed for her one bit and still on the rotation of kicking DP out and having explosive fights every other week.
drugs, alcohol and the rest of it.
her teen daughter who is lovely has spent more and more time at our house.
I won’t let my DD around there and so they spend most of there time at mine. This gradually turned in to her being here over the weekends all the time and never going home during a school holiday.
last week after school broke up there was another huge fight, I went and picked up all the children and in the end and bought them back to mine.
I rang social services the 2 younger children are currently now at their aunts house and the eldest is still with me. Apparently social services are pretty useless and the younger 2 are returning home. The eldest is refusing and wants to remain here. The social services at this point don’t seem very bothered about her staying here and are coming for anoher visit on Wednesday.
Sarah has basically said keep her - she got us in to this mess. She seems to be blaming eldest for the social involvement because she rang my daughters phone that night.
she says she loves her but that she clearly doesn’t want to come home so she can just stay here.
surely it’s not that simple and social work just let her move in here with us ?
It seems a big responsibility to have another child who is not mine just move in.
social services have visited and made sure she is safe and coming against Wednesday but what happens next ?

Twelve is so young. Whatever happens, you have already had a positive effect on this girl’s life and she will remember that forever. Poor child.

SS should be of the view that it's harming for the girl to return to Sarah's care given the chaos at home. There need to speak to her on her own to complete an assessment. It's unusual a child will rather stay elsewhere than at home so there might be even more going on at home than you are aware of that puts her at risk.

Ask SS to complete an assessment during which time your home will be an 'unregulated placement'. You will get some financial support. If it's decided that she can remain with you, then you will get more support once a panel has agreed it's in her best interests to stay with you rather than return to her mother's care. Feel free to DM me. I work in this field.

Social services will be guided by you. If you say you're going to enter into a private fostering arrangement, that is what they'll assess

If you say you're not going to and she cant stay, they'll make a decision about whether she has to go home or can go home or not.

You have to instruct them what you want to do.

Kids like this have no chance in life with such feral parents. You are doing a noble thing by giving one of them a chance despite hardship to yourself. I'd do it. Well done.

You sounds a lovely friend to her - but she is absolutely not your friend. If you are happy to offer the DD a stable home, you've got to get her mother to face up to her responsibilities. You need a financial contribution - that's non- negotiable. What's her plan on getting her family back together? What changes is she making? You can't drop parenting responsibilites into someone elses's lap ?
I couldn't be friends with a person like this. I commend you on providing her DD a home.

@Fluffyholeysocks Some parents really are that awful, sadly. Alcohol, drugs and DV will have beaten her down too.
OP, work with SS. Explain your concerns. Ask what happens if things deteriorate in, say, two years time. Are any arrangements permanent or can you come up with an interim solution for right now.
I'd say it's essential for her to have her own room (pretty sure SS will insist on that) if she does live with you.
Whatever happens, you can continue to be a big part of her life as long as she lives in your area.

I’m someone who has been that child, I moved in with my best friend at 13. It started with dinner once a week, which turned into sleep over once a week, which turned into all weekend and then one weekend I never went home. We shared her double bed for ages and then I eventually got my own bedroom.

i was a very naughty kid, for obvious reasons, but never once messed around there.

we’re still best friends now in our 30s and I still call her mum and dad mum and dad. (I am aware they are not my mum and dad though, they didn’t buy me my first house or still take me an my kids on their family holidays 😂)

What happens next is you need to decide if you want this child to be a more or less permanent addition to your family. If not arrangements need to be made for her to either return home, live with another relative or go into care. If you do want her at your house inform social services and the parents. There can't be all this uncertainty imho.

https://frg.org.uk/get-help-and-advice/advice-sheets/#2.-kinship-care

https://www.leeds.gov.uk/one-minute-guides/section-20-children-act-1989

https://www.leeds.gov.uk/one-minute-guides/kinship-care

some good resources to look at.

Women who pick shitty men over the safety of their children, don't deserve to keep their children. She is not your friend, you need to TELL her she's being a shit mother, and cut her off. There's a time for kindness with struggling mothers, but she is willfully putting her kids in danger.

It is not your job to take any of her children in. It's one thing to have her 12 year old occasionally, but social services need to place all of her children in foster care.

Can you hit them up for financial support? It sounds like the poor kids are in a really shit situation.

This is not true. This is a private arrangement and social care are only involved to do basic checks to ensure the carer and her partner are safe for the child to be there. This is no where near the legal threshold for any of the children to be formally removed from their parents and therefore , it is down to the parent to exercise their PR regarding where the child is, not social care.

If there are wider safeguarding concerns for the child, that needs to be investigated but the current arrangement is dealt with separately.
Most people don’t realise that social workers don’t remove children, courts do. Social workers do all the investigating and prepare reports to submit to court but the only people who can actually remove a child are the courts or the police. As I said earlier, based on what you have shared in this post, this would not meet the legal threshold for the child to be removed.

Regarding it being an unregulated placement- it is not a placement as such as the child hasn’t been ‘placed’ there by a professional body, therefore, it doesn’t need to be regulated other than to have the necessary basic checks completed.
i am a social worker in a Kinship team who completes SGO assessments as part of my role. I think what you are doing is amazing OP and it is sad that private fostering comes with so little support. I would advise you check out the Kinship charity as they have info on there. Kinship carers are the unsung heroes of society x
https://kinship.org.uk/

Very kind of you but I’d question the effect on my own family unit. You already have your DC. Do you want the emotional and financial burden of another? Supporting another mouth etc? School uniform, endless pairs of trainers, activities? I would want some guarantee of financial support before turning my whole life upside down. Sounds silly, but will you need a bigger car? Will holidays be more expensive? Or compromised altogether? Not that everything is financial, but I wouldn’t want my own DC to go without to satisfy this arrangement. It is dreadfully sad but also not your responsibility.

Your friend probably sees this as a temporary fix, she views relationships as always on and off again so to her this is normal. Don’t be surprised when she has to hand over child benefits she starts panicking!
You need to speak to SS as the young girl will be living with you permanently and her family not having parental rights. You want to push for assistance for help with finances because it will get expensive providing new clothes, school uniforms etc and you may need to extend into the loft to give her and your DD a room each.
It might seem mercenary but you need help to give her the space and stability she deserves whilst providing for clothing, hobbies and holidays etc so it doesn’t impact your DC.

What do you mean? "what can I say to her"

She sees you as her scape goat, I know its all very well she's your childhood friend, but what I haven't seen mentioned throughout this thread is What about your 4 Kids? You have a 3 very young children, you have your hands full.

You need to put your own children first. Its all very well being kind, but now you have find yourself and the centre of their toxic drama and have been pulled right into it.

That child is only 12, what happens when she hits the teenage years, she has a lot of baggage that you're not trained to manage. I know others are coming on here saying its a really nice thing to do, but you are putting your own young family at a huge risk that you are not even aware of yet.

You need to be strong and do the right thing for your kids.
The first thing I would do is completely break complete contact that that "Friend" .
I know this sounds very tough, but a 12 year old doesn't get to decide she's staying in your home. This is only the start of it!

Her mother doesn't want her back, what does that tell you? What happens when she gets confortable in her new environnment and starts kicking off in your home? What does your husband say in all of this.

The longer you keep that child in your home, the harder it will be to remove her, you will never have any peace.

I feel really sorry for this child ..and for you in a difficult situation.
I can understand why your friend's child wants to stay in your far more stable home with your children and you have been very kind in allowing her to stay so often.
But what of the future? She is only 12years old so if it becomes permanent you have a long road of caring for her ahead. How would this pan out in the future? She will have massive insecurities and her mother is likely to play on them ...come home ..you can't come home ..go back to you ..etc etc
What of teen years? All the usual ups and downs ...and then some...and the impact on your own family

You know what the child wants op ..and the mother ...but what do you want? How much can you take? How far, in your heart if hearts are you willing to commit to this other family's drama?

No one can answer this but yourself op ...and unless you make decisions for yourself social services will go with whatever is safe and easiest for them. Personally I would explore all options with your DH and either say to this poor kid ...you are welcome to stay here at weekends/some of school holidays etc but you really have to live with your own parents ...or I would get an official foster child arrangement made .
There is little extra expense at the moment but if she ends up staying permanently, it's not just food, it's clothes, holidays, pocket money, Christmas presents, outings. Also if officially fostering you and the child are supported if the mother kicks off or problems occur in the teen years. Thinking long term, I have no idea what I would do in this situation. 💐

You are entitled to financial support but more importantly with that comes assistance for independent living, further education etc for the girl so it’s not just about you being able to manage financially in the shorter term. It’s about all the additional costs such as clothing and independence as she grows older. You are a good person but don’t let it be taken advantage of by social services or your friend. I would ditch the friend as she has her priorities all wrong and this could have further impact upon your family. Look into all the options.

I wouldn’t. Awful for the kid but you have to look after your own children. What happens if they fall it. Which they will at some point! It’s not two 12yo girls, it’s two 16yo girls you have to worry about.

That should have said I complete Private Fostering assessments as part of my role, although I complete SGO assessments too!!

I had a similar situation as a teen. No social services involved, I just quietly moved in with my friend's family.

They just treated me like their own kids in terms of homework rules etc. I appreciated the normality and stability at the time, I don't think I caused them issues.

However there was a poster above who mentioned always feeling like you owed someone a favour - I do remember feeling like this too. It wasn't ideal, but it was appreciated and what I needed at the time.

It's funny I've never thought of it in terms of being fostered before, but I guess that's exactly what it was.

OP - you're doing a lovely thing.

I think you are brave and kind to consider having your daughter's friend living with you full time. One thing that would be concerning me is that what would happen if your daughter and her friend fall out? They will be teens soon and as a previous poster pointed out the hormones haven't kicked in yet, but when they do the two girls might develop emotionally, socially and physically at different rates and no longer have so much in common. I remember acquiring a completely different friendship group on transition to high school. Do you think their relationship would survive the possible change from friendship to a more sibling relationship? Your daughter may feel that what seems fun at 12 having your bestie living with you, might feel not such a good idea at 15 if their interests have diverged.

@thesunisnearlyhere It is a massive decision with future implications which you obviously know - but I want to say, this is the most heart-warming post I have read in a very long time and I hope it works out for you. Whatever the outcome, you have gone above and beyond ❤️

Social services would struggle finding a placement for 3 siblings together, it would be a struggle finding a foster family for the 12 year old even alone, she could end up in residential care. As nice as it would be for them to stay together, it may not be realistic. If I was you, I would keep the 12 year old and talk to social services about making the arrangement formal if you feel you can manage. It would be preferable for her to have her own room but given she has moved in with you off her own back rather than social services placing her there it shouldn't be an issue. They do make exceptions on own bedrooms for family and friend placements.

OP, my concern would be that at the moment it’s only food, the financial burden will increase as the girl gets older. You will have to fund things at the same time for not just one child but two. School uniforms, trips, treats etc. Is your own daughter going to become resentful when you start to refuse her things? You are going through a honeymoon period, when the girls start to get on each other’s nerves; when you have to discipline the girl; when your daughter wants other friends over, what then?

If SS are happy for the younger 2 to go home, they would be happy for the eldest to go. If the eldest doesn’t go, and SS are happy you a a safe home, thy may allow her to stay with you. But as they are happy for the kids to go home, this would mean that the eldest staying with you would essentially just be a arrangement between you and the mum, SS wouldn’t give you any support, financial or otherwise (I guess they would check in occasionally, as the kids are now known to them).