Will antisemitism ever be looked at and dealt with in the same way as Islamophobia is?

[LucyWestenra]

AIBU for thinking it won’t? Because it doesn’t seem to be the case in this country or my home country (Germany).

(I just googled because it didn’t seem right to have antisemitism in lower capitals, but apparently that is correct, as I thought)

Much love to the Jewish community, wherever they are.

❤️

Okay. That is part of the problem, that many don't know what antisemitism is. Like men who don't understand misogyny.

Enlighten me with an example in this thread then please.

Then perhaps explain it to us to help us understand.

We can’t change if we don’t understand what we’re doing wrong.

But that wouldn’t fit with your agenda would it? It’s almost as though you want people to internalise the idea that they’re doing something wrong so that even mentioning Israel can make people nervous.

No - Beta Israel, not ‘beta Jews’. It’s the Ethiopian Jewish community’s own name for themselves. Beta means ‘house’ ie house of Israel. It’s a translation of the Hebrew Beit.
Dont twist the community’s own name for itself using mistranslation as supposed ‘proof’ of Israeli racism.

The OP title could have said, ‘when will antisemitism be taken seriously’. But from the start she sought to diminish Islamophobia and set the tone for the thread. She has ignored any reasonable questions or comments about Islamophobia (a topic she introduced in her title) and she herself distracted from the hugely important issue: how we deal with the unacceptable antisemitism in this country and keep Jewish people safe.

Why did she bring Islamophobia into it I wonder, and make it into a unsavoury ‘competition’. We don’t need more threads like this.

Asserting that "there are other Semites" (such as Arabs) to invalidate or deflect from accusations of antisemitism is widely regarded as a form of antisemitic discourse.

While the term "Semitic" historically refers to a language family that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Amharic, the term "antisemitism" was specifically coined in the late 19th century to mean prejudice against Jews, not against all speakers of Semitic languages

Wow, interesting but not surprising reply.

I explained something to you you clearly didn't realise. Lots of people don't.

You state:

"There seems to be a commonality, using the AS to confirm, of islamophobia and genocide being justified from from those of you who are probably far right, with heavily conservative (fascist) views."

All that from a mere post pointing out what antisemitism means.

PS I'm not far right, with heavily fascist views. Interesting that you'd get that from a mere factual post explaining that antisemitism just covers Jews hatred not hatred towards 'semites' in general.

If you're openly Jewish?
If you have Jewish kids wearing a Jewish school uniform? Wearing a Kippa?
Why do you think there are security guards outside jewish schools and jewish institutions? Because Jews are so safe in the UK?

Yeah, its like saying 'oh but people think I'm black when I'm suntanned' to minimise racism against Black people.

Everyone know what antisemitic is referring to.

Omg, I'm dying here.
They are referred to as beta Jews 😂
As opposed to the Alpha Jews (a for ashkenazi)
The ignorance!!!!
I'm laughing out loud at the total stupidity.

For the record, its beta isreal. Beta comes from the word Beit which is house in Amhraic and Geez (as well as Hebrew)
It means house of Israel as said above and its how Ethiopian Jews proudly refer to themselves.

My God, she went to israel, heard something about beta and decided to come on to mumsnet to demonstrate her total ignorance and prejudice

It's quite clear antisemitism is hatred against Jewish people. Using the 'but there are other Semites is something often seen. I assume people just repeat what they've heard so merely post a standard legal reason why that is incorrect. Apparently using a legal definition makes me a right wing, fascist that supports other forms of racism. Interesting take.

Next one is usually that Jews aren't even semitic. You know what with all of them coming from eastern Europe and jsut appearing there at some point

Do you mean me? If so, what agenda? Anti-racist agenda? I mean, non-selective anti-racist agenda? I'm not Jewish by the way. And I'm a person of colour - yeah, you know, a "brown person". I have a lot of family and friends who are Jewish (and many are "brown"), and some are even Israeli. I find it easy to spot antisemitism and other forms of racism. If I can understand and see it, then frankly anyone else can.

I'm personally okay with racists of all forms as long as it is a view and not being acted upon. I just don't have to mix with them. The worst are racists who think they are anti-racisits but at the same time antisemites, not understanding that that is racism.

I think there are a few key points to understand to be able to spot antisemism:

• stop any BS around who is and who isn't semite. That is not what we're discussing here. We're discussing antisemitism and that has a specific meaning. It is not a homemade word.
• understand that being Jewish is not about being religious and what an ethnicity is
• understand what zionism is. To refer to zionism as some extreme view is the same as when people think that all Muslims are fundamental islamistis, which is often how racists view it. It's mind-boggling that people can't see that. Zionism is the right to self-determination and most Jews belive in that (funny that!)
• understand that many Jews are "brown" people. I find it "funny" (not haha funny) when people talk about Jews as white

I am sure that there are other points than the above but as an ally, I can't see how it is possible go not spot antisemitism if you understand the above. It is not my job to get people to understand. I try a few times and then just avoid racists.

And I get suspicious when people post comments like this.

What? They didn't just appear! The diaspora is, you know, a thing.

I know. I was being sarcastic. The sad thing is that this isn't even obvious

A long reply yet you still haven’t shown me an example of Antisemitism on this thread.

As previous posters have said, it would have been useful for those who have claimed that there was antisemitism in this thread to have used some specific examples.

I think accusing people of bigotry when there hasn’t been any is dangerous and creates unnecessary division and hostility. It does nothing for cohesion or understanding.

I have read the thread in its entirety and found nothing that could be construed as antisemitic.

I am confused as to why the OP pitched this as Islamophobia vs antisemitism. Again, very divisive.

From a personal point of view, I don't feel it is not my job to teach others about antisemitism beyond a certain point. Like I give up on men who needs to have misogyny explained and pointed out to them. Or explain why "All lives matter" is problematic when discussing "Black lives matter" or find it problematic when the way women are dressed is brought up when the topic is violence against women (ie victim blaming).

I take it that my points above are neither agreed upon or understood, which makes it difficult to continue. I think there needs to be a basic level of common ground to be able to understand each other. Eg anyone who tries to change the meaning of antisemitism doesn't do it from wanting to understand, it is a way to disregard hatred against Jews and make it their problem, that it is not real.

This thread is filled with it all.

I would say it's been a bit swings and roundabouts.

At one time opposing antisemitism was a darling cause, and at the moment it's more towards Islamaphobia. In both cases there can be a tricky blurred line between criticism of ideas or beliefs and prejudicial bigotry, as well as around pragmatic political questions.

There are all kinds of reasons for the shift between the two but it may well, probably will, shift again in some way.

Previously I would have said they are two sides of the same coin, mainly coming from the far right

But as someone who has generally been on the left politically, I have been floored and astounded by the antisemitism coming from the far left (Corbyn was the start of that slippery slope) and the unbridled antisemitism in the Muslim community that I've seen in recent years.

What do you think about people who are (rightly) against antisemitism and want to tackle it, but also express that essentially too much attention is being given to Islamophobia? Like the OP.

You just needed to give examples, not patronise those asking for them.

Not the OP here but IMO the two concepts are not comparable.

Only Islamophobia literally means opposition to a religion. Personally I think criticising religion - any religion - is not a bad thing and I don’t see why Islam should get a pass.

As someone who was brought up catholic I think that the traditional catholic practice of “churching” women to cleanse them after childbirth was misogynistic, and I’m delighted it’s gone - but that wouldn’t have happened if women hadn’t been able to make their objections clear.

And since I’m against the catholic church’s misogyny, how could I not also feel that Orthodox Judaism is also misogynistic in having similar “cleansing” practices for women? And that doesn’t make me antisemitic because it’s criticism of a religious practice, not the people.

But the problem with “islamophobia” is that the words “racism” and “xenophobia” are enough to describe anything that is hatred of the people concerned, so what is left for Islamophobia? Criticism of the religion of Islam.

So when I name the practices in Islam that I think are misogynistic (men not shaking a woman’s hand, women staying separate from normal society under a veil etc) I’m going to be told I’m Islamophobic. Whereas I feel I’m just being consistent.