To think that if you’re prepared to travel to an IVF clinic outside the UK in a country where fertility treatment is not as tightly regulated as here then you need to accept the risks?

[KimberleyClark]

Obviously it’s awful that this has happened. But nobody is forced to go abroad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74v5jd5zkjo

I think you'll find fertility clinics everywhere sometimes make such mistakes. And medicine more generally.

The NHS has something around 30,000 cases of harm each year from poor communication and record keeping...

HFEA: 581 incidents and near misses reported in 2023-4 (admittedly a tiny percentage of cases - but not considered news).

Regulation is expensive, which can make treatment more expensive in countries like the UK. Sarris from the British Fertility Society says that is one reason why he suspects Northern Cyprus has become such a popular destination for fertility treatment

I assume people know that's the reason northern Cyprus is cheap. I am not victim blaming by any means but it's a risk you take when you have a medical procedure in a place that is without regulation.

You don’t have to do much googling to find examples of IVF mix ups in the UK. Here’s one.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/jun/14/ivf-clinic-embryo-couple-loss

Your post feels ungenerous, the decision will presumably have been made due to lower cost. Private IVF isn’t affordable for everyone, and as they’re a same-sex couple, they wouldn’t have had the option for IVF on the NHS until very recently.

Not surprised at all.

When money and high emotions are involved people turn into Piranhas.

As someone who unsuccessfully went through IVF, the NHS will only fund a certain number of attempts, in certain situations. After you pay yourself it's not cheap. Cyprus is a member of the eu not a third world country so I fully understand why they did it.

Unless you have found yourself childless and out of options in the UK I think you really shouldn't pass comment.

For the record we decided to discontinue treatment with one NHS cycle left.

So what you’re saying is - if you are poorer, you have to take more risks than someone who is richer to pursue a particular goal?

I don’t think that’s news for anyone. Not having as much money sucks. And the things you have to put up with because of it suck too.

Cyprus is a member of the eu not a third world country so I fully understand why they did it.

Cyprus is, but EU law has been suspended in North Cyprus for 40 odd years as it is controlled by the Turkish. That’s why people go there for their cheap eggs/sperm/surrogacy. It’s not for me but I can see why people do it.

Medical mistakes happen everywhere. I had IVF at a fancy place on Harley St and they definitely made mistakes. The ones I know of include scanning me with someone else’s patient records up on the screen (didn’t check my DOB); didn’t have the right drugs to give me during a procedure as their drugs list wasn’t up to date and trying to bill me for other people’s treatment.

This was Northern Cyprus which isn't a member of the EU .. it's an unrecognized self declared state

No i think we should strive to standardise medical care globally.

As it happens I am childless not by choice. Had unsuccessful IVF all privately funded. It was virtually impossible to get IVF on the NHS when we were trying, there was a lot of bad feeling about it being available on the NHS at all. You were called selfish if you tried to get it.

I feel quite strongly about how some unscrupulous clinics (which do exist in the UK too) exploit people by offering expensive “add ons” with no proof they work.

Poorer people are forced abroad though, since IVF is so expensive. That shouldn't mean having to accept whatever the clinic does, so long as it results in a pregnancy! Mistakes can happen, but this sounds like there was never any intention to use the selected donor sperm. Those children will never know their medical histories or anything about their background on their fathers side.

Such a kind, empathetic post 🙄

£16k to have a baby - they are not poor.

But @RoseField1 that kind of makes it worse in a way. They didn't go to the arse end of nowhere and paid 2k for some sperm, in which case they could reasonably assume that not everything was above board. They went to what they believed was a decent clinic and they were lied to and deceived, which has very real consequences for their children.

Maybe that 16k was everything they had and they just couldn't afford UK treatment. Or didn't meet the UK criteria.

Tbh, it doesn't matter - money changed hands and these women should have received the treatment they were promised.

The whole situation is a mess and I feel sorry for the children. But there is a tiny whiff of discomfort around this complaint when they do have two beautiful, healthy children.

This isn't about empathy it is about ethics and risks when creating a child.

You would only be reasonable if the NHS offering here were adequate, and private treatment costs were reasonable.

As it is, NHS provision is dire, there’s a complete postcode lottery and many couple don’t get treatment. If they do, the offering is usually a small number of one-size-fits-all production line treatments that aren’t properly tailored to the individual couple, and don’t take advantage of cutting edge treatments or labs.

Private treatment is eye-wateringly expensive, and simply out of reach for many. Not just because of the stringent regulations here, but because of the clinic profits, which are hefty.

Often, clinics abroad are more efficient than the ones here, even private ones. Spanish clinics, for example.

There are obvious reasons why people go abroad. They’re desperate and often this is the only chance they have to become parents.

This is a systemic issue.

I agree with @BunfightBetty.

We had IVF abroad (not Cyprus) and the clinic well helpful, well organised, empathetic and just all round professional.

It couldn't have been more of a contrast with our experiences in the UK.

We would NEVER have gone abroad if the services had been fit for purpose here.

Yes, they are fortunate to have two seemingly healthy children. But if a clinic can behave like this, can they be trusted to have screened for genetic conditions or illnesses that their dc might be more likely to get? It must be very frightening to have absolutely no knowledge regarding the fathers of your children.

Many people choose less regulated countries if using sperm donation as it is fully anonymous, so not necessarily a cost issue. I feel uncomfortable with sperm donation in the first instance but to purposely choose somewhere for anonymity is abhorrent.

Stories like this are a reason to ban IVF completely, not just stick to the UK. The risks to the children created have always been huge but people don’t care about that because either profit or a desire to have a pregnancy is deemed more important.

The risks are pretty big of having a child, full stop.

All sorts of things can happen.

At least people doing IVF have actually had to give thought to it all, unlike the just have a shag variety.

Some people also choose Cyprus because it allows sex selection of embryos (not suggesting that’s the case for this specific couple).

@Needlenardlenoo but in this instance the couple hadn’t thought about whether their child might want to know who their dad was. With anonymous donation they will never have that option.

There is a reason sperm/egg donation is not allowed to be anonymous in this country. The child should come first

This couple are upset that there has been a mix up with sperm/eggs but they weren’t bothered in the first place that their DC would never have the option of tracing their dad.

Also there is no regulation on how many times a donor can be used so there could be many people related to them. The recent case where a donor had cancer gene from Denmark clinic and over 100 children could have been impacted, shows just how unethical some countries are