To think that if you’re prepared to travel to an IVF clinic outside the UK in a country where fertility treatment is not as tightly regulated as here then you need to accept the risks?

[KimberleyClark]

Obviously it’s awful that this has happened. But nobody is forced to go abroad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74v5jd5zkjo

I just saw a snippet on the news about somebody saying their child had the wrong coloured eyes. Fgs. It's not a mail order company that's sent you the wrong coloured jumper. Makes me absolutely sick to see human life bartered and bought and sold and meddled with this in this way.

This is the worst thing about this case. Just imagine their children now - ‘Mummy and Mummy wanted us to be have the same father but now that we don’t they want compensating. They must be really disappointed in us.’

I doubt children of that age will be using the word ‘compensating’, and I think there’s quite a lot of projection going on here.

they have the DNA of their first child - how much info can someone provide before they do start to become traceable?
Obviously it’s a different kettle of fish with the donor for the second child

They said the results of the DNA tests "indicated neither child was related to the sperm donor their parents had selected".

But if at any time one or both of the children does a DNA test with Ancestry and uploads the results, they will be matched with any relatives of their donors who have done the same - relatives who probably have no idea that this is a possibility.

There are all kinds of ethical questions and potential cans of worms surrounding both donor babies and DNA testing for fun.

The children were conceived in 2011 and 2014 they are secondary school age not toddlers.

I don't follow that logic at all.

When I had counselling about donor conception, it was absolutely axiomatic that children will want - and deserve - to understand how you came to that choice, even if they never meet their biological parent. I would want to tell a child why I chose their donor, including his motivations for donating and, of course, his medical history.

Of course it could make a difference to the children if the donor is someone totally different from who the parents expected. He could have hereditary illnesses they've no idea about. It could be really upsetting.

Anyone who decides to circumvent UK fertility law - which was changed to protect children - is a selfish idiot.

All donor conceived children should have the right to know who their biological parents are. People who bypass that in order to have children on the cheap are not adequate parents.

Or, more likely, 'mummy and mummy wanted us to know we were planned and loved children, and they believed they'd chose our donor with care; they'e always been able to tell us about our medical heritage. Now they've no idea about that and it might have an impact on our long-term health.'

There are worse problems than getting the wrong sperm donor, if they got healthy babies does it really matter? For most people desperate for a baby that would be a minor thing.

But that's the point. It's a really big 'if'.

Of course it isn't - and shouldn't be - a minor thing.

For the children, it matters enormously. It’s why the U.K. changed the law in 2005 to ban anonymous donation.

Listening to File on Four, it feels like the mothers hung their children’s identity around their presumed father’s identity. As their children have different mothers, the ‘dad’ being Danish and their shared parent was really important. But neither child’s dad was Danish nor was he the same person.

it seems like it was more about them being fair in who carried the babies than ensuring their children were related. If they’d had donor conceived IVF in the uk, this would have happened

This is just turkey teeth or Brazilian butt lifts but throwing other people into the mix.

If you’re bringing new people into the world, don’t go cheap. Rules and regulations are there for a reason. Their poor kids.

I wish I could share your optimism about UK clinics.

Full disclosure: I have a donor conceived child born from a U.K. registered sperm donor. I am absolutely passionate about children being able to access information about their donors.

Cross posted @SarahAndQuack - what do you mean?

But how would it have made a difference in this case?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all we know is that the donor was anonymous - which is the case for many UK donors; as a parent you can't waive that anonymity (except, as I understanding it, with enormous amounts of paperwork and special circumstances, eg., serious illness) until your child is of age.

This sort of mistake could happen in a UK clinic. The issue isn't that the donor(s) were anonymous to the parents at time of donation. The issue is that the clinic used the wrong donor sperm and didn't admit it.

I cross posted too!

I mean, this sort of mistake could happen in the UK too. I hope to goodness it wouldn't, and I haven't heard of exactly this error, but clinics mixing up sperm, eggs, embryos and genetic parents is a known issue. Clinics in the UK ought to be careful, but plainly, they are not careful enough.

These parents are absolutely desperate for a baby. They want a baby more than anything. It’s cruel saying they have to accept the risks. It might be their only route to have a baby. It’s not a moral conscious thing - it’s painfully heartbreaking . And mistakes have also happened in England

They are annoyed because the two children aren't related to each other.

I googled sperm donation in northern Cyprus and it states that is it fully anonymous, details are never provided to the child.

@NiftyJadeSheep its not all about the parents, child should come first.

These parents are absolutely desperate for a baby. They want a baby more than anything. It’s cruel saying they have to accept the risks. It might be their only route to have a baby.

But it's not just about them. The baby won't always be a baby. They have to consider the potential impact on the child.

That’s the same for any medical treatment abroad. But I get their decision. If you are desperate to be a parent and cannot afford the UK then overseas is your next best option.

Are these men not screened before donating their sperm? Surely both donors would have undergone similar tests, so health wise, either both are inherently risky or not?

It’s not like one sperm was from the husband and one was a donor. Both are donor

That's assuming these were both legit donors.

I would be very nervous about that, if it were me. If the clinic has fucked up, who knows what happened?

Is there any science to show that children born by ivf are at great risk than, say, children born into poverty? Or children born to teenage mothers? Or children born to those with poor mental health etc? What are they at risk of exactly?

Of course they potentially could but there is regulation in the U.K. Cyprus is just a cowboy place. Listen to the podcast. How can you conceive a child in a place that has so little care?