Six year old trans girl ‘tries to cut off her penis’ after Guide ban

[JonesTown]

Quite a disturbing article in this morning’s Observer regarding the impact of the Guides’ ban on trans girls following the Supreme Court ruling.

It reports on the experience of one six year old trans girl named Emily after hearing she could no longer attend Rainbows:

Emily’s parents decided to be honest with their daughter about the situation, and explained that she was no longer able to take part in Rainbows because she was trans. A few hours later Curt said they found her “sobbing in her room” and were “shocked” to find her holding a pair of plastic scissors to her penis.

AIBU to find this a distressing consequence of campaign by anti-trans activists or is it a natural result of allowing such young children to change their gender identity?

It’s Zoe Williams so what do you expect?

I don’t disagree with having safe spaces for women. I don’t disagree with the idea that you cannot change your biological sex. I don’t disagree with the idea that this girl’s parents did her a disservice by not steering her towards scouts, etc rather than rainbows.

However, I have to vehemently disagree with the idea that a 6 yo needs to receive immediate psychiatric care because she has her own opinion about how she feels about her own gender identity, or that these opinions must have been forced upon her by her hemp chewing parents.

I know that my opinions are based on actual experience. I am very curious to hear how many of the highly opinionated posters on this thread have actually lived through having their child explain to them that they felt as though they “are” their non biological gender?

I don’t believe there are many parents out there who want anything other than the best, happiest and easiest life for their child. No parent thinks that their child being trans is an easy ride in life.

My 6 yo could not be repackaged into a non gender questioning box by being told “your biology can’t change” - so having tried a few variations of that line, what would you actually do next?

To be clear, I’m very happy with how my kid & I have navigated this, thus far. I am just really keen to find out how all the posters who seem to think it’s so simple to set these “unwell” or even “abused” children straight with a bit of decent parenting would go about it..?

Oh well then I want to identify as black. I want access to black spaces, I want to speak publicly on black issues and in fact not only be respected but I want to be considered very special and an improved version of blackness. I want to change my appearance to match those that some in Society consider markers of blackness.

Oh wait no I don't, im not a heinous monster who thinks appropriating the cultures of those with less privilege is fine and dandy or in your words, only right.

Womanhood is not something you can simply decide to copy. If you think it is little more that long hair and genital removal then it shows how deeply embedded your misogyny is. Do you think blackness is simply defined by afro hair, big lips and ability to run fast because most would consider that stereotyping to be hideous racism. Surface appearance does not a woman make.

Yet you are more that happy to give away womens identities, your sheer hatred of women, our identies, our safety and our rights is on display for all to see. You are absolutely no better than a rascist peddling stereotypes and appropriation.

I, like other posters am concerned that this little boy gets the mental health support he needs and that he is protected from his parents who frankly are very obviously emotionally abusing this child to suit their political agenda.

He can no more be a woman than he can be a dolphin.

In order for a child to think that they are 'not' their biological gender, they will have absorbed (on some level) that certain behaviours and preferences are associated with each gender.

As a parent, I believe it is our job to challenge this thinking whenever it raises its head. There is no 'right' way to be a boy or a girl, therefore there is no way they can be getting it wrong or are somehow misaligned.

A boy can love wearing sparkly dresses and nail varnish. A girl can live in shorts and love rough play. So that's the attitude I think should be taught and modelled.

Actual, genuine gender dysphoria is a real thing, but in its classic format it has much more to do with distress at one's sex organs than anything to do with societal stereotypes. It is thankfully very rare, but children who suffer from this should be having extensive counselling and psychological care.

However, I have to vehemently disagree with the idea that a 6 yo needs to receive immediate psychiatric care because she has her own opinion about how she feels about her own gender identity,

This 6 year old child was apparently trying to cut off his penis with a pair of scissors. If that is true them he does need immediate psychiatric care

I absolutely agree that children can feel pigeonholed by societal gender expectations (feels like a very wordy way to say that!). However, hand on heart I do not know where these crept into my child’s orbit.

I never expected to find myself parenting a trans child, it was not in any way on my radar. My firstborn really wasn’t pushed into playing with gender typical toys, but this was because I was more interested in STEM / musical toys and I loathe plastic tat. Initially they would always choose gender typical clothing.
They have told me that they were trying on a pair of glasses in boots, looked around them and just “felt” as though they were meant to be the opposite gender. Nothing more significant than that..

I read posts on threads like these and it seems as though people imagine the parents of trans children to either be plotting some nefarious world dominating ideology based around public bathrooms, or hearing their child express a gender questioning opinion and immediately throwing a trans flag around them and changing their pronouns. The reality is very different, much more nuanced. I would really like to know how many of the “I’d just tell them that’s not real” brigade have ever met a trans person / child?

Would it be asking too much for you to say “her”?

The child is male.

The child is male. I object to using terms that don't agree with their sex. For lots of reasons.

So gender as well as biological sex are set in stone in your view?

Yes.

Because the child is MALE.

Yes. You can't make other people adhere to the tenets of a cult they are not disciples of.

It sounds like you have a sensible approach to things.

Sadly though that isn’t always the case. When DS was in year 4 a mum of a year 5 child announced that he was now known by a female name, she made a massive song and dance about it at the school gate and all over social media (at point I deleted her) she started trying to argue for him to use the girls toilets and took offence when parents said they weren’t comfy with it.

The whole thing was a shit show of the mothers causing with the poor child in the middle of it. He is now about 18 and last I heard was back to living as male but with very little contact with his mum.

Hi - can you define ‘gender’ for those of us who find this all a bit baffling. Because whenever I see gender defined it inevitably includes regressive stereotypes.

Gender dysphoria is not a real thing because 'gender' is not a real thing

Gender is simply a collection of sex stereotypes, behaviours, likes and dislikes

You can no more be gender dysphoric than you can be stamp collector dysphoric

I dont collect stamps, whatever shall I do, I feel so uncomfortable about this and not happy with myself.

Oh cross posted, thank you.

..and for you, those reasons are more important than the feelings of the people you are referring to..
Can I ask how many people you know IRL who would prefer you use pronouns which don’t match their biological sex?
(This post sounds more antagonistic than I mean it to, but I can’t find a way to say this more neutrally!)

Cult? Really?
Im trying to have a sensible conversation here.

'Use the language we demand or be shamed/punished. Even if you don't agree with it. Even if it doesn't align with reality. Say it. Say it!'

There's definitely a cult-y vibe....

Totally agree that gender is about stereotyping.

I have two friends with trans adult DC. Both were boys who were very obviously gay from a young age. They both grew up as out gay young men until their mid 20’s when they both decided to identify as women.

And with both, their whole appearance is very stereotype based - long hair extensions, heavy make up, very tight dresses and high heels even to go to Sainsburys.

They’re still gay men imo they are just choosing an outward look that they believe is what a woman should be.

In my work I occasionally dealt with people who were trans, so over nearly 40 years, quite a few. I didn't like having to refer to them as female because they aren't. I did my best to not use the terms she/her etc. My feelings about them deciding that, being 'female', they could access female spaces were apparently just ignored. I was expected to be kind without any kindness being shown to me. So, quite frankly I'm glad that we have reached a point where women & girls don't have to tolerate men in their spaces. And part of that is not engaging in what is, to me, a desire from trans people to be validated in their beliefs. I don't validate other cults and this is no different.

Well you can bury your head in the sand and choose to refuse to see that not parent in life doesn't have their child's best interests in life as their priority.

Meanwhile. Safeguarding principles still remain.

I'm not the poster in question but I know 3 trans youths (two MtoF and one FtoM) plus two young people who are "non-binary" lesbian girls .

I don't use preferred pronouns because I find them offensive and ridiculous by turns, and because I don't believe it helps these young people at all. It would also be really confusing for me, given that all of them look like the biological sex they are, albeit with more hair dye and piercings.

Are my feelings more valid then theirs? Well they are to me.

You can hardly have a sensible conversation about nonsensical, damaging beliefs.

I have a family member who transitioned, then detransitioned. Unfortunately she took T for a few years and that has left with her with considerable health problems.

She's very typical of a cohort of girls who transitioned. She is on the spectrum and she's attracted to women. Eventually she realised that 'living as a man' was not the answer to the confusion and non conformity she felt.

So perhaps that answers your question ...